That Was A Close One......(Funny Story)

[fluff191]

First I want to say I am sorry to all you Recto nuts out there. I thought all of you were insane for liking the 2 Channel version over the 3 Channel versions. Let me explain:

I bought a 92 Rev. E. from the very gracious Elpelotero here on the board. Tried it, thought it was OK but my 3 Channel made the Rev. E. sound like a childrens toy.

It sounded almost identical to my vintage 70's Big Muff. Seriously. That is no exageration. So as many of you know I put it up for sale or trade. I was totally disapointed. Holy Grail of tone? I thought all of you were insane. Who could like this sound? NO bottom end, fizzy, and very noisy.

So not wanting to let the next owner get the (seemingly) good JJ preamp tubes, I switched them out with the stock set I had as extras. Wanting to check to make sure everything was ok before getting rid of it I flipped it on and almost fell over.

It sounded as if God himself reached down and gave the amp a kiss. And to think I almost got rid of this thing! WOW! Deep, rich low end and a thick, creamy top end.

Anyone want a new 3 Channel Recto? :wink:

 

[MusicManJP6]

JJs in a Recto sound like ass IMO (as you found out). I love them in DCs, Fs, and Stilettos though. Mesas seem to sound the best in a Recto for some reason. Congrats on your revelation!!!

I've got a pair of STR420s coming this week to replace the JJ EL34s that came with my RoV combo. They should sound killer!

 

[fluff191]

Yeah I am starting to find the JJ's preamp tubes dont sound that hot either. I ordered som EH's and a few Mullards so I will see how I like those.

 

[Silverwulf]

I love the JJ's in a Recto, but they are very fickle. When you have a good set it sounds godly. If you get some bad ones, it's very bleh. I also only tend to use the high gain JJ's. I find I don't like the sound of the standards.

 

[echoes420]

I just spent nearly a month on trying out just about every new production preamp tube available in today's market...

After 26 different combinations... I have gone back to my setup of all JJ's.

I started the quest to make the clean channel on my rev. G sound more glassy... which can be done with the right combo of tubes, but at the cost of taking away too much character from the distorted channel.

But then again, fluff, you and I have very dissimilar tastes in eq, so that could be the difference. That is the thing with rectos... every single one I have ever heard didn't sound like the one I heard before it... meaning they truly are some of the most versatile amps out there today.

 

[Silverwulf]

As a guy that's owned 40+ Rectos, I can definitely say that even with the same tubes, they do sound different. Not as different as say, old JCM 800's do...but each still has it's own character to a degree.

 

[fluff191]

I never really gave much thought to preamp tubes making such a huge difference. I have always played with power tubes. Guess ya learn something ew everyday.

 

[MusicManJP6]

I love the JJ's in a Recto, but they are very fickle. When you have a good set it sounds godly. If you get some bad ones, it's very bleh. I also only tend to use the high gain JJ's. I find I don't like the sound of the standards.

Maybe that is the difference... I've only tried standards - not high gains - in a Recto.

 

[fluff191]

After all the nice tubes I ordered, I did every possible combination of EH's, JJ's, and Mesa tubes (the Mullards are on thier way)......Sounds the best with Mesa Chinese in all postion with the exception of the Russian Mesa tube in V1. Go figure.

 

[mikey383]

I never really gave much thought to preamp tubes making such a huge difference. I have always played with power tubes. Guess ya learn something ew everyday.

The preamp is where all your tone shaping goes on! Swapping out one preamp tube can have as much or more effect on the overall tone as swapping out a set of power tubes.

JJs are also a bad choice for V1. I've found they don't sound bad in other positions, but they are very dark and grainy in V1.

You have me thinking though...I have a couple dozen old Mesa 7025STR preamp tubes, and a couple of the Sovtek 12AX7LPS that are rumored to be great...I may try swapping those with my JJs.

 

[tunedown]

I haven't posted on here in a while, but I want to put in my two cents real quick:

This situation sounds very similar my own. I bought my Rev G. 2ch Dual Rec from a guy who said he'd had a tech check it out and had put new tubes in it before I bought it. I took him for his word and, since I'd never owned one before, assumed that the sounds I was getting out of it were the sounds that i was supposed to be getting out of it. Well... I played that head for over 6 months mostly "as is" until I took it to MY tech (back in May just before a 30-day tour).

It turns out that the head had a bunch of little problems with it and when he called me to come in and pick it up he literally told me "you've never heard this amp before". He was right. It sounds worlds better then it did. So much better. I used to have a bunch of little complaints with the head before he fixed it and I went through all kinds of guitars, pickups, cabinets, boost pedals, etc trying to get the head to sound better. Turns out that the head itself (never mind all of the external factors) wasn't even performing properly/correctly. I was trying to put bandades on an amp that just needed to be fixed, but I had no idea.

I can't believe I ever went that long without having it sufficiently gone through by an experienced and qualified tech. The lesson I learned? Don't struggle with tonal issues, tube choices, guitars, pickups, etc BEFORE taking it to the best tech you can find. I was guilty of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Just like you, Fluff, assumed when you first fired up the 2 ch, that what you were hearing was what that head was capable of. How were you supposed to know that it wasn't operating even CLOSE to what it's capable of...

 

[fluff191]

Just like you, Fluff, assumed when you first fired up the 2 ch, that what you were hearing was what that head was capable of. How were you supposed to know that it wasn't operating even CLOSE to what it's capable of...

Very well put! That is exactly what happened. I really want to take mine to a tech cause there are still a few little things I want to fix (takes a long time to warm up, some wierd humming, etc.) but up here in the Northwest all the techs are an hour away in Seattle, except for the douche at Guitar Center.

 

[thejay]

except for the douche at Guitar Center.

Well said... they are every where!

 

[tunedown]

Just like you, Fluff, assumed when you first fired up the 2 ch, that what you were hearing was what that head was capable of. How were you supposed to know that it wasn't operating even CLOSE to what it's capable of...

Very well put! That is exactly what happened. I really want to take mine to a tech cause there are still a few little things I want to fix (takes a long time to warm up, some wierd humming, etc.) but up here in the Northwest all the techs are an hour away in Seattle, except for the douche at Guitar Center.

The funny thing is: I used to bug everyone on this board for advice on how to make my 2ch dual rec sound better (tighter, warmer, more usable gain). The comments/questions I always received were "what kind of guitar are you using?" or "what kind of cabinet/speakers are you using?" - what I'm saying is that the suggestions I received 8 times out of 10 were related to "external factors" and rarely did we get in to the efficiency and functioning of the head itself. Never once did anyone ever say "when was the last time you had a legit/experienced tech go through that head?" or "take it to a tech and report back when it's been checked out". Which, when you think about it, should have been everyone's first line of defense. The responses should have been more like "where did the head come from? How long have YOU had it? And, when was the last time you had it checked out to make sure it's at optimal operating capacity?"

There's a little bit of arrogance there. There's a bit of an undertone of "well, it's a Mesa/Boogie and they're the the walk-of-the-walk of guitar heads, so if it doesn't sound good, YOU must be doing something wrong or something ELSE that you are using must be at fault." you know?

 

[fluff191]

There's a little bit of arrogance there. There's a bit of an undertone of "well, it's a Mesa/Boogie and they're the the walk-of-the-walk of guitar heads, so if it doesn't sound good, YOU must be doing something wrong or something ELSE that you are using must be at fault." you know?

+1

 

[lyman]

There's a little bit of arrogance there. There's a bit of an undertone of "well, it's a Mesa/Boogie and they're the the walk-of-the-walk of guitar heads, so if it doesn't sound good, YOU must be doing something wrong or something ELSE that you are using must be at fault." you know?

+1

Just playing devil's advocate here.....but asking for help and then taking the suggestions as criticism is a little overly defensive. I think people simply assumed your gear is in fine working order, that's all. And just as those people who offered advice might appear "arrogant" in your eyes, you can just as easily appear ignorant to them for not knowing how to maintain your equipment by having it checked out regularly.

I hope this doesn't come off as an attack, I'm only throwing out a different point of view into the discussion. To quote the title of some Extreme album I've never heard, there are 3 sides to every story!

 

[colemaneuclid]

I believe that when people ask "how do I get my amp to sound better" that 9 times out of 10 that's all they say when they ask. They don't give information like what kind of guitar they use, effects they use where, and what kind of cab they have. ALL of these things affect the tone and are required information to find where to start when it comes to tone tweaking. A buddy at work started asking me how to get a better sound and I ran him thru the gauntlet of questions of what he has, what he wants to sound like and the road to get there. It took him a few minutes to realize how EVERYTHING affects your tone. From the wood of the guitar, to the strings, to the pickups, to where you put effects, tubes, proper cables, high quality cab with quality speakers etc... Every little nuance helps get the tone from your head to your ears.

 

[tunedown]

I believe that when people ask "how do I get my amp to sound better" that 9 times out of 10 that's all they say when they ask. They don't give information like what kind of guitar they use, effects they use where, and what kind of cab they have. ALL of these things affect the tone and are required information to find where to start when it comes to tone tweaking. A buddy at work started asking me how to get a better sound and I ran him thru the gauntlet of questions of what he has, what he wants to sound like and the road to get there. It took him a few minutes to realize how EVERYTHING affects your tone. From the wood of the guitar, to the strings, to the pickups, to where you put effects, tubes, proper cables, high quality cab with quality speakers etc... Every little nuance helps get the tone from your head to your ears.

Totally. You're right, and I completely agree.

But... this issue (every little nuance helps get the tone from your head to your ears) isn't what we were talkin' about. It was about the Mesa/Boogie head itself and it was about getting the most of out your head, BEFORE you move on to adjust the other factors that effect the final outcome. Most importantly, before you question (read: blame) guitars, pickups, cabs, or effects it's vital to make 100% sure that you've got your head in proper working order (even if it seems like your head is working "OK"). Most specifically, Fluff's experience and my experience.

 

[tunedown]

There's a little bit of arrogance there. There's a bit of an undertone of "well, it's a Mesa/Boogie and they're the the walk-of-the-walk of guitar heads, so if it doesn't sound good, YOU must be doing something wrong or something ELSE that you are using must be at fault." you know?

+1

Just playing devil's advocate here.....but asking for help and then taking the suggestions as criticism is a little overly defensive. I think people simply assumed your gear is in fine working order, that's all. And just as those people who offered advice might appear "arrogant" in your eyes, you can just as easily appear ignorant to them for not knowing how to maintain your equipment by having it checked out regularly.

I hope this doesn't come off as an attack, I'm only throwing out a different point of view into the discussion. To quote the title of some Extreme album I've never heard, there are 3 sides to every story!

I like "devil's advocate". I think it's a constructive form of communication (especially on a message board) so don't worry about offending me or anything.

I can appreciate that it would seem as though I were ignorant for asking strangers on a message board how to maintain/operate my equipment. The problem with this viewpoint this: That's exactly how it was presented. Right out of the gate I presented myself as a newbie who had just purchased his first 2ch dual rectifier and was looking for some advice. I did this exact same thing when I purchased my first Mark IV and got loads of good suggestions.

I was making 2 observations. The first observation is: the first advice to a newbie (me) usually doesn't urge one to take it to a tech... because even though it makes noise and sounds decent, there could be any host of issues inhibiting the head from performing at its peak, AND, there's no use adjusting your guitars/pickups/cabinet/pedals to a head that may sound different (better) after you take it to a tech. A newbie usually won't know the difference (by audible observations alone) whether an amp they've never owned before is... "doing what it's supposed to"? y'know what I mean? Newbies make the same mistakes that experienced operators made their first time. The reason a Newbie (me) asks a bunch of experienced users/techs questions is to limit the number of mistakes they make in the future. This mistake (not having a tech check it out right after I purchased it) sucked

The second observation: And this is not just my personal experience, but an observation of "fill-in-the-blank-fanatics". I was just making a canned observation that fanatics and brand-loyalists tend to stay loyal even in times of troubleshooting/problem-solving. For example: A Chevy lover may tell you that your engine doesn't run smoothly because you put the wrong GAS in it or you used the wrong SPARK PLUGS or YOU'VE been driving it wrong. Plainly speaking, brand-loyalists tend to look to external factors to address adverse performance before they address the actual product that's doing the performing. I wasn't attempting to "dig" anyone or make a comment that appeared "arrogant". I saw an interesting trend and I just thought I'd point it out in case anyone else saw it too and might appreciate the possible insight...

I should probably say that I've had nothing but a positive experience on this board and have, in no way, taken any of the help that I've received for granted.

I probably wouldn't have purchased a Mesa/Boogie amplifier in the first place if it weren't for this board. I never thought about that before, but it's interesting that it's true...