Stiletto Trident Series 1

[TTSTWO]

Hello all. Very proud to be a member of the Mesa family. I've been browsing

around this forum for a while and decided to join. From what I've read,

a lot of good information and knowledgeable people in here.



My quest for tone begins again!



In 1988 I sold all of my musical equipment after our band broke up. At the

time I was running stock single coil Strats and a hot rodded Strat through

a 100W Custom HiWatt 4x12 half stack and a side 2x12 bottom. Simple signal chain

of Boss DS1 and Boss Chorus pedal(s), suited my needs for the music we were

playing at the time. With the addition of the dirt box, the HiWatt had plenty

of balls. In 1994 I decided that since I'm not playing in a band and really

don't need the extra hassle of heavy equipment, I decided to go with a

2X12 transistor combo amp; a Fender M-80 Chorus. Since then I've add a 1X12

Fender Princeton to that setup. I ran a Dunlop Wha into a ds1 into an Ibanez

Digital delay into the Princeton input then Princeton pre-amp out to the M80.

Sounds ok at quiet to medium levels but crap if up too loud.

I've been threatening to go back to fire bottles for the last few years saying

Things like "The Marshall is coming to town" or "The Tone Farm is going to

Make a delivery soon" for example.



It finally happened a couple weeks ago, I bought a Boogie! It was advertised

as a Stiletto Trident Series 2 (used). Unf. I did very little research (Mesa website)

on this amplifier. I didn't know the difference between a Series 2 and Series 1.

When I purchased it I did not know that a Series 2 had a II marking above the

guitar input jack on the face plate. SO I purchased a series 1. I've been

playing a lot of hi gain stuff thru the trans amp that my ears a used to the

tone (or lack of) that I was getting thru that setup. I have not had a lot of

time to stretch the legs of the Stiletto but at first glance, I'm satisfied

with everything up to the Fluid Gain on channel 2, sounds flubbery and lacks tightness.

I would like to get more staccato, tight low end crunch out of it . I’ve heard about the

Hollywood mod that basically revoices a stage 1 to a stage 2, it this true? I read the

Mod was no longer available but believe there is an amp tech out there that will do it.

At the moment my speaker setup is less than desirable; I’m using the M-80

Fender 2x12" 8 ohm wired in parallel (4ohm draw). I know once I match this puppy

up with a recto or Stiletto 2x12 bottom (not in the market yet), night and day. Not really

in the market to try different tube configurations yet, and that's ok, I have time

to do research and try to do the right thing to find my sound at my speed

and within budget.

THIS is the main reason I'm here.

I'm thinking about running a 7 or 10 band graphic eq to the FX

loop or in front to tighten up the bottom end on the Fluid Drive. Has anyone

tried this? Does it work. What’s the best EQ (MXR, Boss, etc...)?

I'm looking for a bit extra gain and hoping the eq will

help with that as well.



Since I work a second shift job, most of my playing time is limited to the weekends.

And like I said, I have not unleashed the full possibilities that this amp can offer,

that will take time.



Sorry for such a long post but I wanted to give a little bit of my history. I'm sure

my upcoming posts will be much shorter. I look forward to reading here and now I feel

like a kid in a candy store, except, my candy is Ear Candy....TONE!!!

 

[Silverwulf]

Welcome to the Boogie family, and welcome to the board.

The Stiletto is an great amp, and I'm sure we can help answer your questions. I've personally owned a Deuce Series I, Deuce Series I with Hollywood Mod, a couple of Stiletto ACE (which are Series II) heads, and a Deuce Series II.

I'll start by saying there's a huge difference in the Series I and Series II head. I like to say that the Series I is more "vintage" where as the Series II is more "modern." Regardless of mods, the Series I will never sound quite like a Series II. However, the Hollywood Mod (HWM) is somewhere in between. It's more gainy and less flubby than Series I, but it's not as gainy and tight as Series II. For that reason, I like to refer to the HWM as Series 1.5 - 8)

If you like the sound of everything in your Series I except the Fluid Drive, then maybe a mod isn't for you. The HWM will reshape quite a bit in your amp, add gain, match up the "Crunch" channels, etc. The Series I "Crunch" on Channel I does a very nice Plexi type sound and is different than Series II. The cleans are a little different, and the overall feel of the amp will change some.

If you like everything else the amp has to offer, I would start by trying a different tubes (which I know you noted you're not ready to try yet) or pedals in front. Using an OD pedal as a boost can tighten up your "Fluid Drive" some if that's your only issue. I guess my opinion is if you're happy overall with everything else in the amp except the flubbiness of one mode, I would try a few different things first. If you were unhappy with multiple modes, then I'd consider the HWM.

 

[TTSTWO]

Thanks for the greet and input.
I guess the first thing I'll try is an od pedal out front. I tried the DS-1 this weekend and it sounded like garbage; Actually sounded good on the solid state. Second, I'll try an EQ. Third is a new boogie bottom say 2x12 v30s. The Fender speakers are not handling it.

Do you happen to know a price on a HMod?

I'll write in with results.

Thanks again!!

Tom T.

 

[Paulie]

Tom,

If you only have had the amp for a few weeks and can only 'open it up' at certain times, I would suggest taking some more time to get used to the amp before taking on any mods. I have a Deuce stage 1 and found that the amp sounds very different in different rooms/applications - In the basement I'm not thrilled with it but in the band, it is the sweetest tone I've ever had. Also, it can sound slightly different from day to day (although I find it more consistent than my DR). 3 months later and I'm still getting to know the amp (like you, there are limitted times when I can spend time tweaking it and cranking it up). Depending on what you were looking for, having a stage I may not be a bad thing (If you were an oldschool Hiwatt guy you should love the stage I).

I also use an M108 10 band EQ in the loop and occasionally an OCD out front. These both can tighten it up quite a bit.

As Silverwulf said, enjoy the stage I w/o a mod for now but using an EQ or OD and maybe switching around some tubes. I think you will end up really liking the vintage vibe while having the add-ons to give it a more modern flavor if needed. If after time it isn't working for you, then consider mods.

 

[Vigo1999]

I dont think i can add too much, since Wolf and Paulie already told ya what you have to know spot on 8)

imo you should keep it unmoded, i also have a Series I (never played the II tho) and since you can play it the "proper" way (mean LOUD) you dont really know what she has to offer the Series I has plenty of gain to spare, put it on tite gain with volume on 11:00-12:00 and i doubt you'll not have a big grin on your face :mrgreen:

plus, as Wulfie said, the Crunch I on her is absolutely FANTASTIC and if you want to tighten it up use a low gain od in front (im using a Barber LTD blackface) to go on steroids.

spend more time with her, youll not regret and instead of saving for a EQ, try to change your cab first, as you already said, night and day 8)

welcome to the family

 

[TTSTWO]

Thanks, Silverwulf, Paulie and Vigo999.

You are exactly right, It's going to take time to get things dialed in at louder volume levels. I cranked it last night for a bit in the basement and started tweeking and was most impressed with the crunch mode on both 1 and 2 channel. Next weekend I'll be cooking her at full bore for and extended amount of time to really get the tubes heated up. Of course not ear bleed levels but more of a gradual increase in volume for longer that 20 min to 1/2 hour. This head was re-tubed with Mesa tubes about a month before I bought it, so, low hours. There is a burn in period on new tubes. Like I said earlier, I'm going to go the box route for now; eq and od. I can't wait for summer to plug this in in the barn (bigger space).

Paulie, you had mentioned the M108, it's a MXR. What manufacturer is the OCD? I will also look at the Ibanez Tube Screamer.

I know a v30 loaded speaker cabinet will make a load of difference but not in the budget right now.

Take Care!

 

[Vigo1999]

tough times everywhere now , since youre on a budget, check out the wharehouse speakers, they made a V30 clone, called Veteran 30 that are really great, im using'em in a custom stiletto copy cab and sounds awesome!

OCD is from Fulltone. great od unit as well

check'em out:

www.fulltone.com

www.barberelectronics.com

tk good cr!

 

[Silverwulf]

Glad to help. I'll just reiterate what I mentioned and Vigo hammered home in that the Channel 1 "Crunch" on the Series I Stiletto is worth the price of admission alone. It's much different than the Series II "Crunch" modes. Series I "Crunch" is more Plexi-ish, where as Series II "Crunch" is more akin to a JCM 800 to me.

On your Series I, the Channel 1 "Crunch" is actually different than the "Crunch" on Channel 2 also. You could make a one channel amp that had the Series I "Crunch" and a lot of players would probably be happy with it alone.

The OCD is made by Fulltone. It's not a bad OD pedal at all, but I do prefer the traditional Tube Screamer types. The Ibanez TS9 is a great pedal, but I actually prefer the Maxon OD808 for all my "Tube Screamer" needs. You can't go wrong with either pedal.

As for tubes, I'm a huge JJ fan. They're not for everyone. I actually love their tubes in both my Recto and the Stiletto ACE (as it helps tame the ACE's brightness), but in the Deuce, I've been using stock Mesa 447 EL34's and all 12AX7's. The only non-stock tube in my Deuce is a Tung Sol 12AX7 in my V1 slot. Most people around here are familiar of my hatred of the Tung Sol 12AX7... :lol: I've hated it in every amp I've ever tried...EXCEPT the Stiletto. It's always sounded gritty, grainy, etc...to me. But, using it in V1 in the Deuce with stock Mesa tubes tends to work out great, so that's what I've been using. V1 is the input and second gain stage for Crunch and Tite Gain, which are what I use most. If you want to try a cheap alternative to buying a full set of tubes, maybe even try swapping in that single tube and see if you have the same success. I may have a few extra I'm not using if you want to give one a try.

 

[TTSTWO]

Thanks for the tube offer, Silverwulf. I'm not ready to go that far and open her up yet. But I may take you up on the offer when the time comes.

This weekend it's a tossup between the EQ or the OD, I'm leaning EQ and then add OD later if needed. I'll run out front then in FX loop to hear any differences. I'm also going to close the back of my current speaker bottom setup.

Thanks for all the cool info, all. B back with an update soon.

Tom T.

 

[TTSTWO]

I purchased the MXR 10 band. I stuck it in front and was not impressed. I wired it into to the FX loop and holy COW! All i gotta say is WoW. The Fluid is usable! I knocked down the low freq and kicked the highs up a bit and I'm getting a much tighter crunch. Both Recto tracking and diods sound excellent on the fluid setting. I switched back and forth between channel 1 crunch mode and channel 2 fluid with a few tweeks to the amp setting in channel 1 and was impressed. IMO, the EQ belongs in the loop. For now, I have no need for an OD. Tonight, I get to crank it up with all the effects (limited today, wife and grandbaby taking a nap) and let this lady breath fire!

Thanks fow all the great advise, all.

Next upgrade; new speaker cab......can't wait!!

Tom T.

 

[TTSTWO]

The Saturday night sound check went well. I played on and off between 6pm and midnight. Since I'm not in a band i pretty much play guitar karaoke to the CD player/sound system, not quite band levels but close enough. Played mostly older Robin Trower and Rush to old school Metallica and some new Lamb of God. I played primarily thru channel 1 crunch mode, the EQ was set for that and fluid drive for some rhythm stuff but mainly soloing. I would have to set the EQ differently to get the sounds I want from channel 2 crunch and tite gain so I didn't play around with those settings much. For RT and Rush (and others) Ch 1 crunch was it, incorporating the volume knob on the guitar to clean it up on softer parts. It sounded pretty good on some of the Met stuff and not to great on others. It was either the beers kicking in or that need for the Recto sound. Overall, this thing kicked some serious a@@. Cut throught the mix well. I did kick it into 150w mode to get all 34's time to breath.....lol, I had to turn it down a bit....freaking loud!! I need a quality cab with quality speakers, the Fenders are 15 years old, perhaps a bit tired.

TT

 

[TTSTWO]

I've done a little research on some OD pedals and it boils down to testing them. I'm leaning Maxon OD 808 over the TS 808, it's all about the price. TS runs close to 180 new and the Maxon runs close to 140 new, advertised at GC. They both have the JRC4558 chip in them so I don't understand why Ibanez charges 40 bux more, maybe it's just a name brand/vintage/re-issue thing that justifies it? Who knows. :roll: Wonder if there is a sound difference, hence, test.

Vigo had mentioned the Warehouse Speakers. I looked them up and they are about half the price of the Celestions I had in mind (v30's). They had a few sound clips on the website that were interesting but everyones rig and playing style is different. So, whatever, speakers are going to have to wait a while anyway :mrgreen: .......

Tom T.

 

[TTSTWO]

Hate to beat a dead horse, but, I really need to test this amp out with a good bottom. I'm just not happy with the sounds I'm getting out of it through my current setup. I've been tweeking quite a bit and I'm used to it. I'm not ready to give up on it though. I've heard some clips of the Deuce and others that sounded great. I'm guessing that the crap I'm playing through are done, time to retire and go new. So, for the time being, I'll consider this thread finished until I'm into a new bottom setup. Thanks to all for the suggestions!!

Cheers, Tom T.

 

[TTSTWO]

Ok!, weekend testing went well. In my very first post I lied (not purposly). I wired my 2 8 ohm 12 inchers in series thus creating a 16 ohm load. This is a safe mis-match when using the 8 ohm output from the amp. The Stiletto manual says it may have an effect on the sound but will not cause damage to the amp. So, Saturday I rewired it to parallel 4 ohm load and pluged into the 4 ohm output of the amp. I didn't really hear a difference but I would rather run the "correct match". After reading many posts on this forum and again re- reading the owners manual, I have a good sound dialed in. In the past, my HiWatt had onlt a master volume and regular volume, no gain. So with that in mind I started out by turning the gain on channel 1 tite clean and fat clean down to (edit): 9 or less oclock, run a boost out front and use the output and master volume for overall volume control. Bingo for that. I do really like the channel 1 crunch with eq and no boost. I'm now trying to dial in channel 2 crunch to emulate the channel 1 crunch, they are different and it's going to take time if even possible to match them. I would like to be able to use just the head footswitch and boost on/off footswitch rather that flipping a mini toggle. I'm not even in a band and I'm wooried about this :?: ??? Go figure. Overall, after last weekend's dissappointing :x results, I'm am fairly pleased with this amp.

Tom T.

 

[Silverwulf]

...I'm now trying to dial in channel 2 crunch to emulate the channel 1 crunch, they are different and it's going to take time if even possible to match them...

I'm not advocating modding the amp, but I do want to point out that this is one of the things the "Hollywood Mod" addresses...it makes Channel 2 "Crunch" identical to Channel 1 "Crunch."

 

[TTSTWO]

...I'm now trying to dial in channel 2 crunch to emulate the channel 1 crunch, they are different and it's going to take time if even possible to match them...

I'm not advocating modding the amp, but I do want to point out that this is one of the things the "Hollywood Mod" addresses...it makes Channel 2 "Crunch" identical to Channel 1 "Crunch."

That's a good point AND what it says about the Stage 2 on the Mesa website. For now, I'm going to leave it stock and soon try some of your suggestions on tubes.
Once I get this rig hammered out, I'm going to start checking out DR's for the modern tone I'm looking for. Stiletto is great for vintage but I play different types of music that require more grindage.