Sovtek 12ax7lps

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jdurso

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Anyone have experience with these? I've been looking for a replacement for my Siemens ecc83 that decided to blow its bottom (see picture below). I purchased the Siemens from Shred on this forum and am not sure what i am exactly looking for or where to find it. Searching online has been a bit overwhelming... if i search Siemens ecc83 i find a bunch of different ones, prices ranging from $20-$200. Now I'm a total noob when it comes to NOS tubes, but it says the Sovtek is derived from the Siemens design. I love the sound of the Siemens i had in my Roadster and want to find a replacement but a lot of the Siemens ecc83s i'm finding have a pretty hefty price tag. So if anyone has any input i'd greatly appreciate it.

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Hello Jdurso,

is that Roadster a combo or a head? I find it interesting that the only instances where I've seen tubes with damage to the bottom like this have been from Mesa users on this forum! Could it be that those military quality ceramic preamp tube sockets have a bit too ferocious of a grip to the pins and therefore are preamp tubes a bit sensitive as to how they are inserted and pulled? I have no experience with Sovtek LPS. I do have experience with nearly any vintage old stock (VOS)12ax7 ever made.

The siemens you picture is a long ribbed plate 12ax7, not as common as their shortplate 12ax7. Four types of Siemens 12ax7's exist: the shortplate ecc83, which is most common and the design resembles the short plate Mullard and Amperex bugle boy, the e83cc, a shortplate that has an extra mica and more robust getter halo support, the king daddy of them all, rated 10,000 hours, the long smoothplate ecc83 resembling the famed Telefunken smoothplate but with no diamond between the pins, sometimes found in the e83cc designation, and the long ribbed plate which is your tube. It has less of a midrange than the shortplate siemens types, but has a bit more upper mid and top end complexity to its tone. That's the good news, the dirty tone is rich in harmonics, the bad news is that they are prone to being microphonic,k which is not a good thing to have in a combo amp with the kind of massive power a roadster has.

If you do have a combo, I'd like to suggest you purchase an RFT 12ax7 if that siemens was sitting in a dirty channel spot. The distortion is very smooth, lots of mids and decent top end, it's design is among the most resistant to microphonics of any 12ax7 ever made. They are found on eBay for 30 45 bucks each plus shipping and are worth every penny, often rebranded with other labeling. Two other 12ax7's which offer a similar bright top end are the Matsushita short plate12ax7 with 45 degree getter halo, the infamous "Japanese Mullard" made on Mulllard tooling in Japan, and the hard to find raytheon long grayplate 12ax7a organ tube sometimes found with the yellow Baldwin labe. The long blackplate raytheon 12ax7a organ tube is slightly less bright than the hard to find grayplate, and it is wonderful sounding with a bit less top end. All of these tubes suggested are more resistant to microphonics than that siemens of yours. The Rays have a partial 3rd mica on top of the top mica to damp vibrations, the Matsushitas are so well made that I never has seen a microphonic one, and I have several of them, they need to be used like a few hundred to maybe a thousand hours to get them broken in, (Really!) their top end is particularly bright. All of these tubes offer wonderful sounding distortion dripping in harmonics, with plenty of mids and a decent but not overwhelming bottom. The uber-spendy siemens e83cc short grayplate is one of my two or three fave 12ax7 types of all time, but they cost like 80-120 bucks apiece NOS or slightly used VOS, but worth it if the one you get is not a bit microphonic. Huge mids like their Mullard shortplate cousins but more complex when smacked into the dirty. All can be found on ebay. The matsushitas commonly go for like 20 bucks or less each, the rays 20-30 ballpark. Again, I recommend the RFT if you have a combo amp, it won't sound like the Siemens you had, but I'd be very surprised if you didn't like it one heck of a lot anyway. You might get a Jones to start collecting vintage tubes, Shredd got you a very good one. YOu have a taste for very nice equipment, great tubes make great equipment sound greater.

Hope this helps you, I have greatly enjoyed reading your posts here. Peace.
 
The LPS has been my tube of choise for years. The seem las longer than any current production tube ive tried. The sound is very tight and even. I would say they are a Med-high gain tube - some suppliers have a high gain option for these. They are also relatively stable and low noise, but not as much as the SPax7. I move my amp around alot. 2-3 rehearsals in 2 locations during the week, and then 1-2 gigs a week on the weekends. The amp gets banged around alot and i normally have problems with preamp tubes failing or going microphonic. Not the case with the LPS
 
212Mavguy said:
Hello Jdurso,

is that Roadster a combo or a head? I find it interesting that the only instances where I've seen tubes with damage to the bottom like this have been from Mesa users on this forum! Could it be that those military quality ceramic preamp tube sockets have a bit too ferocious of a grip to the pins and therefore are preamp tubes a bit sensitive as to how they are inserted and pulled? I have no experience with Sovtek LPS. I do have experience with nearly any vintage old stock (VOS)12ax7 ever made.

The siemens you picture is a long ribbed plate 12ax7, not as common as their shortplate 12ax7. Four types of Siemens 12ax7's exist: the shortplate ecc83, which is most common and the design resembles the short plate Mullard and Amperex bugle boy, the e83cc, a shortplate that has an extra mica and more robust getter halo support, the king daddy of them all, rated 10,000 hours, the long smoothplate ecc83 resembling the famed Telefunken smoothplate but with no diamond between the pins, sometimes found in the e83cc designation, and the long ribbed plate which is your tube. It has less of a midrange than the shortplate siemens types, but has a bit more upper mid and top end complexity to its tone. That's the good news, the dirty tone is rich in harmonics, the bad news is that they are prone to being microphonic,k which is not a good thing to have in a combo amp with the kind of massive power a roadster has.

If you do have a combo, I'd like to suggest you purchase an RFT 12ax7 if that siemens was sitting in a dirty channel spot. The distortion is very smooth, lots of mids and decent top end, it's design is among the most resistant to microphonics of any 12ax7 ever made. They are found on eBay for 30 45 bucks each plus shipping and are worth every penny, often rebranded with other labeling. Two other 12ax7's which offer a similar bright top end are the Matsushita short plate12ax7 with 45 degree getter halo, the infamous "Japanese Mullard" made on Mulllard tooling in Japan, and the hard to find raytheon long grayplate 12ax7a organ tube sometimes found with the yellow Baldwin labe. The long blackplate raytheon 12ax7a organ tube is slightly less bright than the hard to find grayplate, and it is wonderful sounding with a bit less top end. All of these tubes suggested are more resistant to microphonics than that siemens of yours. The Rays have a partial 3rd mica on top of the top mica to damp vibrations, the Matsushitas are so well made that I never has seen a microphonic one, and I have several of them, they need to be used like a few hundred to maybe a thousand hours to get them broken in, (Really!) their top end is particularly bright. All of these tubes offer wonderful sounding distortion dripping in harmonics, with plenty of mids and a decent but not overwhelming bottom. The uber-spendy siemens e83cc short grayplate is one of my two or three fave 12ax7 types of all time, but they cost like 80-120 bucks apiece NOS or slightly used VOS, but worth it if the one you get is not a bit microphonic. Huge mids like their Mullard shortplate cousins but more complex when smacked into the dirty. All can be found on ebay. The matsushitas commonly go for like 20 bucks or less each, the rays 20-30 ballpark. Again, I recommend the RFT if you have a combo amp, it won't sound like the Siemens you had, but I'd be very surprised if you didn't like it one heck of a lot anyway. You might get a Jones to start collecting vintage tubes, Shredd got you a very good one. YOu have a taste for very nice equipment, great tubes make great equipment sound greater.

Hope this helps you, I have greatly enjoyed reading your posts here. Peace.

Hey Mav thanks for all the information. I do have an RFT that i got from shred but i have found i dont like its breakup point in V1 or V2. I found it kind of killed the high end on my Roadster and maybe it very gainy, but almost too smooth. The Sylvania in V1 and Siemens in V2 got me more of that high end i love which is bright but not harsh, and with a very rich harmonic structure and smooth enough for both rhythm and lead work. Right now this is what I'm running:

V1- Sylvania 12ax7 short-plate
V2- Siemens ecc83 long-plate (RIP)... i have the stock Mesa 12ax7 for now
V3- GE 12ax7a Long plate
V4- Mullard 12at7
V5- GE 12at7wc 6201
V6- Matsushita 12ax7a

So what I'm thinking of trying is the Matsushita in V2 and the stock Mesa tube in V6 until I find a replacement for the Siemens. But ideally I'd like to find either that same Siemens or something that sounds similar. I find the Roadster to be a dark amp by nature so I'm trying to stay away from the smoother tubes in V1 or V2, as i found they had a dulling type effect which is not what I'm looking for. I play mostly rhythm and when youdull that top end you lose the chunk and the attack. So I'm open to any suggestions for tubes in the same ballpark as the siemens. Thanks for all the help guys.
 
Mav... BTW the Roadster is a head not a combo. Would it being a combo make a difference? More vibrations?
 
I got a LPS in V2 position (Nomad 100, clean channel) with a RCA in V1 and sounds really clean, soft, with a light compression.
 
jdurso said:
Mav... BTW the Roadster is a head not a combo. Would it being a combo make a difference? More vibrations?

Yes, the speakers rattle the tubes and that can shorten their useful life, also because of those same vibrations at higher gain settings/volumes problems with microphonics become much more apparent.

What I look for as far as difference between short and long plate is that short plates typically look about as long from top mica to lower mica as the bottle is wide, or slightly less. Long plate tubes look longer from top to bottom mica than the bottle is wide. Shortplate tubes measure approximately 14-15mm, long plates typically measure 17-18mm.

As far as tubes with similar characteristics as the longplate Siemens you had, look into the Philips family of longplate tubes...Mullard, Amperex, Siemens, Miniwatt, Valvo. All of these companies were owned by the parent company, Philips. The Mullard longplates are a bit darker, I think that the Amperex longplates are brighter than the Mullard, and also the Valvo longplate is one of the brighter ones. I happen to also have a Brimar longplate that is quite bright as well. The Siemens longplate is among the brighter of the Philips family of longplate tubes. Hate to give away a secret, but in the past I have won eBay auctions for siemens longplates with the auction item bearing the name of Sonotone 12ax7. I got a pair for like 28 bucks once, turned out to be Siemens longplates and quite strong. Quite the steal! Siemens tubes have a small acid etch near the bottom of the tube most of the time, look for the mathematical "not equal" sign, an equal sign with a diagonal slash through it. Kinda cocky of those Germans to use that one, get it, "no equal"? In this case they are right to my ears, I absolutely love the Siemens tone of the long ribbed and short ribbed plates. Look also for two supports for the getter halo on both types just mentioned. You could get away with using a shortplate one, but you will want to roll the bass and mid knob back about a notch compared to the longplate, and slightly advance the treble knob. Wonderful control of distortion harmonics.
 
Great information Mav, i appreciate you revealing some of your secrets. Just wondering if you know of any sites with some information on understanding the different parts of tube construction and what some of the values/readings mean. I'm reading up and hearing words like "getter" or certain readings on how the tube rates and to be honest with you its all going over my head. i dont expect anyone here to type it out but if you can point me towards the right information i would greatly appreciate it.
 
I through a bid on these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290299133909

One question i have is how do decifer the test ratings? What's a good number or are they different per tube?
 
How would the Raytheon compare to the Siemens? I saw this and as i'm not really sure what all the ratings are and how all these different tubes sound, i figured I'd ask

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350106332173&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RCRX_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=120314577521&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=CrossSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget&_trksid=p284.m184&_trkparms=algo%3DCRX%26its%3DS%252BI%252BSS%26itu%3DISS%252BUCI%252BSI%26otn%3D4
 
Those should be a very nice sounding tube. Should have a fair amount of brightness on top, more than their blackplates. The sound will have more "fundamental" in the notes than the Siemens will, but will still be comparably bright on top, with the Siemens likely to be a bit brighter and slightly more complex harmonics overall. The test scores are printed in reverse order for what most folks usually say...new is 1.2/1.6 So "new" in the order that that auction's seller lists results is 1.6/1.2 . The price is decent. They are near new strong, 85-90%. Snag 'em. They will hold their value if you don't like their tone and want to get rid of them down the road. I love the long gray plate Raytheon tone, especially their cleans, outstanding clarity and smoothness. Dirty tones are pretty nice, too. Lots of bright edge in mine, mine have the Baldwin organ company yellow labeling. I like the dirty tones of the blackplates better, a bit fuller in mids and bottom compared to the top end.
 
212Mavguy said:
Those should be a very nice sounding tube. Should have a fair amount of brightness on top, more than their blackplates. The sound will have more "fundamental" in the notes than the Siemens will, but will still be comparably bright on top, with the Siemens likely to be a bit brighter and slightly more complex harmonics overall. The test scores are printed in reverse order for what most folks usually say...new is 1.2/1.6 So "new" in the order that that auction's seller lists results is 1.6/1.2 . The price is decent. They are near new strong, 85-90%. Snag 'em. They will hold their value if you don't like their tone and want to get rid of them down the road. I love the long gray plate Raytheon tone, especially their cleans, outstanding clarity and smoothness. Dirty tones are pretty nice, too. Lots of bright edge in mine, mine have the Baldwin organ company yellow labeling. I like the dirty tones of the blackplates better, a bit fuller in mids and bottom compared to the top end.

well i didnt win the acution but i think i'm starting to udnerstand what i should be looking for. Man the price on that auction jumped quick... it went up about $80 in the last 4-5 minutes.

BTW, still not fuller understanding those test numbers. Was that guy trying to say 1.2 out of 1.6 making them on the stronger side of the spectrum?
 
I think that the 1.2 refers to the amount of current it puts out per plate, and the 1.6 refers to how much voltage gain is provided per section. Those kind of numbers come from using the Avo tester, it is a euro unit and tests 12ax7's at 250 volts, making the test voltage more similar to in a real amp circuit, unlike most cheap testers that Ebay sellers use. Emissions testers are crap. Hickok testers tend to be very good. Search stokes' posts, he is an amp tech that has posted some info on tube testers in the fairly recent past. As you look and watch as a spectator on ebay, you will continue to learn. Nothing really great going on eBay siemens-wise right now for your longplates. Thee are Mullards and Amperex lp's right now but they will go for eighty to more than a hundy apiece typically.
 

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