Single recto/Dimarzio Evolution p'up

[cellardweller]

Been a while...I have a question.

Is there any hope for this combination (Single recto/Dimarzio Evolution p'up)?
I ended up switching out guitars last time, but I'd like to try to get a decent tone out of my Ibanez which has the Dimarzio Evolution p'up installed.

 

[JonCurcio]

It sounds awesome with my Single Rec, so yeah. Are you using it now with a Single Rec and not getting good results? I don't care for it in Basswood, but I love it in a Mahogany body.

 

[cellardweller]

yeah, I kinda freaked out cuz I was in a hurry jamming with a drumber and whatnot.

There is hope then?

 

[JonCurcio]

Yes

 

[Chris McKinley]

I'm not a fan of the Evolution pickup at all, even though I play some shred. If you're gonna run it through a Recto of any kind, there are two main things to keep in mind. First and foremost, the pickup by itself is shrill and strident in the treble. Couple that with the Recto's well-known glassy presence and the sound can be nails on a chalkboard. Kill the presence completely. Turn treble on the amp down to approx. 10:00 to noon at the highest.

The next thing is that the pickup is not a very fat-sounding one in general. As such, you will need to beef up its midrange harmonics. With a Recto, this means running an overdrive, not a boost, in front of the amp, likely with the tone knob on the pedal turned down a bit as well to avoid those glassy highs again.

Keep the mids on your amp no lower than noon, and bass no higher than 2:00. All of that put together should get you a useable tone. Frankly, it's a poor pickup choice for any amp that produces a lot of presence, so I'd ultimately recommend that you sell it and get a pickup with a fatter response and tamer highs.

 

[cellardweller]

I'm not a fan of the Evolution pickup at all, even though I play some shred. If you're gonna run it through a Recto of any kind, there are two main things to keep in mind. First and foremost, the pickup by itself is shrill and strident in the treble. Couple that with the Recto's well-known glassy presence and the sound can be nails on a chalkboard. Kill the presence completely. Turn treble on the amp down to approx. 10:00 to noon at the highest.

The next thing is that the pickup is not a very fat-sounding one in general. As such, you will need to beef up its midrange harmonics. With a Recto, this means running an overdrive, not a boost, in front of the amp, likely with the tone knob on the pedal turned down a bit as well to avoid those glassy highs again.

Keep the mids on your amp no lower than noon, and bass no higher than 2:00. All of that put together should get you a useable tone. Frankly, it's a poor pickup choice for any amp that produces a lot of presence, so I'd ultimately recommend that you sell it and get a pickup with a fatter response and tamer highs.

THANK YOU!

My basement is too chilly right now to lend itself to experimentation, and my kids are here visiting. I'm in the process of clearing space on my main floor for amp/cabs.

Thanks again to all. 8)

 

[TremoJem]

Chris, I am curious.

I have two TOVs (combos) and you have helped me to tune in my tone with EQ, pedals etc.

I have both of these amps on the floor (no casters) and for the most part they sweep my legs, or in other words they are not facing directly at me.

I have found over the years that this is what sounds best to me, or if they are on stands or up higher, I always have the cones of the speakers pointed away from me.

So my question is, how common is this and what is your set up. I really can't say that concerts on TV really represent what is actually going on, for example, anything with two or more cabinets stacked is most generally not being used or just for show. But, any concerts where bands have two or more combos in use behind them, are either on the floor (at their feet, like mine) or even have sound shields in front of them, similar to what a drummer might have to protect the rest of the stage mics from the acoustic drum transients.

I ask this only because I found this thread and find it interesting.

I have a Ibanez Jem that has two Evolutions in it. I have often thought of trying the Bill Lawrence L500 R, or L, or XL, or the SD '59. I guess I kinda thought to use the '59 in the neck and the BL in the bridge, but, and this is where it gets weird, as long as I have the amps at my feet, the Evolutions sound all right I think.

Please let me know your thoughts on this.

Thanks.

 

[elvis]

My $0.02...

I tend to use my horizontal 2x12 cab vs. vertical because I like the low-end emphasis. This is largely due to the fact that the highs never get to my ears. If I stand way out in front of the cab, I hear a lot more of the highs. If you play live and stand close to the amp, you won't hear what the crowd hears. Your call if you care.

For the pups, I have a Jem and I used to love the Evos through my mini rec. That is a decidedly bright amp, but I never had an issue with the Evos getting too bright. On the contrary, I liked the bite. These days I am mostly playing a Tom Anderson Mongrel with H3 bridge and a PRS SC245 with BKP Cold Sweats. By comparison the Evos sound kind of scooped and low-output. I think a lot is what you are used to.

I also have a set of DiMarzio CL/LF in my Ibanez 7 that sounds a bit anemic and a set of PAF-7 in my J Custom 7 that sound great. I used to love the CL, especially through my Electradyne and MV:25.

I don't think any of the pups are particularly objectionable. For me it's more how I tune the amp to match and very much what my ear gets used to. I never thought I would plug in the Jem and think "meh...", and for sure I never thought it would sound too scooped.

 

[TremoJem]

elvis, I don't really play live anymore, but for the one time a year we do a gig, I will most definitely remember what you said, as I do care what the audience hears, although it all goes thru the PA, I would not want them to hear the cones head on...as it really is not good (to my ear).

So that begs the question, should I be tuning my rig to the cones...don't see how that is possible...in other words, should I be putting the combos back on my tilted stands that point the cones at my ear? Not possible, cuz it is sort of ice pick sounding, if I remember correctly. Don't know really know, as it has been a LONG time since doing so.

I too, like my EVO's...I think...mostly. Yes, I do, but really would love to know what the BL and SD would sound like too.

Oh well.

 

[elvis]

I don't know about the BL, but I suspect the SD will be a bit muddy.

I would tune the speakers so they sound good out in front. Try setting Presence as low as you can stand without killing your dynamics (I set presence so that I get a nice pop when I rake the strings with the pick, to me this translates to fast response) and then set Treble to taste.

If you still get overwhelmed, turn up Bass a bit and/or add some Mids. In my experience the amp can sit on a knife-edge, where if you give it a bit more treble than bass it's harsh, but then either turning bass up or treble down a little can make it dark or muddy. Somewhere in between is great.

 

[TremoJem]

What about cone shields, or whatever they call them.

I have seen where you place this round flat thingy in front of the cone and it disperses the frequencies.

I am not sure if you have ever seen this.

I will try to find it online and post a link.

Wonder what that really does.

 

[TremoJem]

I think I found it...

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/speaker-directivity.470956/

 

[TremoJem]

Can't wait to try this.

I stand pretty close to the amps, within 10 feet and amps are at my feet, so it sounds great to me.

But the drummer is 20/30 feet away and by then the waves have hit everything in the room and bounced off the walls etc. so he jokingly says I sound like a hi-pitched screaming ice pick mess...LOL.

I am sure he is getting the ice pick sound because the amps are facing him directly, but he gets the bad tone by the time it reaches him...if that makes sense.

Anyway I hope this helps.

Now I have to figure out how to get my grill covers off both combo amps for the TOVs.

Later Brother.

 

[TremoJem]

I think I opened a can of worms.

Weber Beam Blocker
Mitchell Donuts
Egnater Tone Bra
Clearsonic Diffusers
1/2" open cell foam
3/4" open cell foam
Large foam disc with 4" circle in center removed
4"-5" small foam disc
CD
The list goes on...

 

[afu]

You have a tone knob on the guitar, yes? Cut some highs.

 

[TremoJem]

No I don't, actually.

 

[afu]

No I don't, actually.

Sorry if that seemed rude. Was being "funny". I removed my tone to make a spin-a-split. When I do adjustments to the neck and action, I angle my treble side down by a very small amount and then make adjustment to the pole screws to fine tune.

Most recommendations for a pickup are to have the bass and treble sides at around 2.3 mm and .8 mm from the string, respectively, but with a very bright pickup it can do exactly what you're saying. I have mine set with both sides at 1.5 to 2 mm, done by ear. Adjusting pole pieces is about balancing the volume once the height is selected. Maybe that would help.

 

[elvis]

I would go after this as an amp thing rather than a pup thing.

My approach has been to use equipment that tends to be bright and dynamic: Maple or ebony fretboards, ceramic pups, swamp ash bodies, etc. That way I don't start with a dead tone. Than I sort of carefully reign it in with my amp settings and EQ as necessary such that I keep as much of the dynamic, crispy response as I can without sounding shrill. I find I can keep the gain lower if I get good transients, which keeps it tighter and livelier and sounds better to me. I get sustain by muscling the strings a bit.

TJ, you might try adding an EQ in the loop to cut ultra-high (above 6k or 7k). I think the treble knob frequencies are too low to make the right difference. I seriously doubt that speaker donuts or other phase tricks will give you what you want. They give subtle changes at best. You could also go for speakers with less rattle, but I think you'd probably hate them. I know I do.

 

[TremoJem]

I removed my treble pot on my guitar too, but have balanced each pup with regards to volume awhile ago.

I think I will just experiment with eq and the other options to see what comes out of it.

Thanks