Roadster Preamp Tube Suggestions

[Big_Al]

Got a Roadster last month and tried the Tung-Sol in V1 and tried some EL34's. Still could not get the tones I wanted out of channel 3 & 4 so I put the stock tubes back in to start over. Well I broke the tip off the MESA tube in V1 and some how damaged the Mesa tube in V2, very low gain on channel 3 & 4.
Since I need to order at least one tube, I might as well get a few to try, any suggestions?
I have searched the forum and found a few cocktails but most of them are older post so I am curious about more recent trends. I would like to get a higher gain sound and I am willing to sacrifice my clean sounds.

Anyother suggestions concerning the Roadster would be very appreciated also!

Thanks,
Alan

 

[screamingdaisy]

I'm assuming you know that the stock Mesa preamp tubes are JJ ECC83?

You need a JJ or Chinese in the V3 and V5. Beyond that, it's all open.

EHX 12AX7EH is what used to come standard (they were relabeled as the Mesa Russian 2). They're brighter and higher gain than JJ but have a tendency towards fizziness.

A Sovtek 12AX7LPS has also been a traditional favourite in the phase inverter position.

 

[Big_Al]

Thanks, I was wondering about the Mesa Russian 2. Anyother tubes of interest I should try?
Silly question: I read posts about a Tung Sol reissue in V1. Is the reissue just current production or is this a different tube than the standard Tung Sol 12ax7? Just curious, I did not see that big a difference with the TS in V1.

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

IMO, I prefer the Russian 2s. I guess the failure rate is high, but they are still working fine on my Roadster. Anyway, get the Mesa SPAX7 preamp in V1... 8)

 

[Big_Al]

Thanks, I have ordered the EH tubes. Any other suggestions?

BTW...I get that the spa12ax7 tubes are quieter but are they a higher gain tube?

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

Thanks, I have ordered the EH tubes. Any other suggestions?

BTW...I get that the spa12ax7 tubes are quieter but are they a higher gain tube?

I'm not sure if it's higher gain, but I do noticed the range of useable gain is just a tad wider, perhaps due to the lower noise from those SPAX7 preamp valves...

 

[iceman]

I gave the tungsol a whirl in the v1 position. I liked what it did when I was using 6L6's, a little richer sounding. Tungsol with the El34s I didn't care for, it was a little grainy texture (not sure if that makes sense). Overall I preferred the stock preamp tubes with El34s. I recorded all combinations with reaper daw, it locked up though before I saved the tracks off and I lost them all :? , oh well..

 

[Big_Al]

Still up for tube suggestions but I am also up for non-tube suggestions.

After tweaking tonight (the amp), I could not figure if it was better to run masters high and use the output for the overall level or high on the output and use the masters for the overall level. I have been keeping the masters in the 10:00-2:00 position (per the manual....I think). Which way do you guys run the amp?

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

Still up for tube suggestions but I am also up for non-tube suggestions.

After tweaking tonight (the amp), I could not figure if it was better to run masters high and use the output for the overall level or high on the output and use the masters for the overall level. I have been keeping the masters in the 10:00-2:00 position (per the manual....I think). Which way do you guys run the amp?

Whatever sounds best to you is how you should run it. There should be a good balance of both. Turn up the output control does seem to give the tone a fatter sound...

 

[screamingdaisy]

Thanks, I have ordered the EH tubes. Any other suggestions?

BTW...I get that the spa12ax7 tubes are quieter but are they a higher gain tube?

The SPAX7 is a regular tube that produced low noise levels during testing. Note that the only criteria is low noise and not better sound.

Still up for tube suggestions but I am also up for non-tube suggestions.

After tweaking tonight (the amp), I could not figure if it was better to run masters high and use the output for the overall level or high on the output and use the masters for the overall level. I have been keeping the masters in the 10:00-2:00 position (per the manual....I think). Which way do you guys run the amp?

I run the modern channel at 10:00 and adjust the other channels to balance the modern one.

 

[Big_Al]

I got the EH tubes in today and Screamingdaisy is right about the fizz. Put them in V1 & V2 and it was pretty fizzy but I did hear a difference in my perceived gain. Next, trying the TS in V1 and then the EH in V4.
My ears are use to a 5150 but I am getting use to the recto sound. I am really liking the tweed mode!
Thanks for all of the help!

 

[Big_Al]

After lots of reading through the forum and online searches, I finally realized that the Roadster needs a boost on the front end to get the type of sound I am persuing. I ran a ZW44 (only OD peddle I have) for a quick check and I was in the ball park of the type of sound I am looking for. Seems like a lot of people are using a Maxon 808 or an OCD but the ZW was good enough to make me realize no matter what tubes I use, I am not going to get that over saturated gain sound with just the amp. Guess I was one of those guys that said a high gain amp should not need an OD pedal but then again, I have been playing a 5150 for a long time.
I will continue to look at tubes but now I have to experiement with OD pedals also...and eliminating excess noise. :wink:

 

[ChrisOfTheDamned]

Al, I was a Marshall guy for a long time.
I had an old JCM 900 master volume head. It was the best.
I then had a crate blue voodoo. I ran a bbe with that and it sounded damn good.

I came across the 2 channel dual rec by chance.

I guess I'm in the same boat as you where I like it to be so overdriven an fuzzy like the 5150
I could care less about a clean channel NEVER use it EVER.

I'm trying the preamp kit for the dual rec from doug's tubes.

 

[Big_Al]

Al, I was a Marshall guy for a long time.
I had an old JCM 900 master volume head. It was the best.
I then had a crate blue voodoo. I ran a bbe with that and it sounded damn good.

I came across the 2 channel dual rec by chance.

I guess I'm in the same boat as you where I like it to be so overdriven an fuzzy like the 5150
I could care less about a clean channel NEVER use it EVER.

I'm trying the preamp kit for the dual rec from doug's tubes.

Please post your opion of the Dougs tube set. Are you getting the set with EL34s or 6L6s?

I got in a T-Rex MAB overdrive today and spent three straight hours just goofing around with settings and within thirty minutes dialed in low volume settings for all four channels. I realize these settings are out the door once I come up to regular volume but it has been a long time since I had so much fun messing around with an amp. With the MAB engaged, channel one set on tweed for a bluesy sound. Channel 3 & 4 with the same setting on the MAB for a liquid gain sound on the channel three vintage mode. On channel four I had enough low end chunk to rattle a picture off the wall...and this was at low volume. Channel two for pretty good clean with reverb. For the first time, I noticed how slight changes can make this amp sound completely different. I have also noticed with an OD, I have backed off the gain on the amp a good bit and only adding a little bit of gain at the OD. When I switch the OD off, I am still happy with the sound it is just the OD adds a little something with the sound and harmonics ring out better.
I started this thread asking about tubes but it seems that an OD is just what I needed to taylor this amp to my taste. I will still persue different tubes but now I know that the Roadster is very versitile and is just what I needed for playing different types of music. I am trying a friends Fulltone OCD this weekend and may get a BB or a 808 but I am very happy...at the moment.

 

[screamingdaisy]

After years of reading internet forums I've found that a lot of people who're into high gain seem to follow the mindset that "More=More". They want the highest output pickups with the highest gain amplifiers and still boost it for all it's worth thinking that more is better.

While I've never been big into boosting I was a long time disciple of EMGs into a Recto with the Recto on full power. The massive gut punch is addictive.

Over time I've developed a lot of appreciation for lower powered stuff... kind of like what you're doing by bringing the gain down and hitting it with a slight boost. I started using lower output pickups; I reduce the volume on my guitar to clean up the first gain stage and get tighter results throughout the remainder of the preamp; I reduce the tone on my guitar to create more clarity (less fizz); I generally run the bare minimum amount of gain required to get the correct feel in the amplifier and rely more on volume to create the effect I want; recently I've started reducing the power using both the variac and tube rectifier settings... even on my aggressive rhythm sounds. The results are an articulate bone crunch with swirling harmonics that makes me smile every time I hear it.

I'm not saying that my way is right or that you'll even like my results, just encouraging further experimentation all directions imaginable.

 

[Chester]

After years of reading internet forums I've found that a lot of people who're into high gain seem to follow the mindset that "More=More". They want the highest output pickups with the highest gain amplifiers and still boost it for all it's worth thinking that more is better.

While I've never been big into boosting I was a long time disciple of EMGs into a Recto with the Recto on full power. The massive gut punch is addictive.

Over time I've developed a lot of appreciation for lower powered stuff... kind of like what you're doing by bringing the gain down and hitting it with a slight boost. I started using lower output pickups; I reduce the volume on my guitar to clean up the first gain stage and get tighter results throughout the remainder of the preamp; I reduce the tone on my guitar to create more clarity (less fizz); I generally run the bare minimum amount of gain required to get the correct feel in the amplifier and rely more on volume to create the effect I want; recently I've started reducing the power using both the variac and tube rectifier settings... even on my aggressive rhythm sounds. The results are an articulate bone crunch with swirling harmonics that makes me smile every time I hear it.

I'm not saying that my way is right or that you'll even like my results, just encouraging further experimentation all directions imaginable.

That is the same park I play in - lower gain, more articulation and dynamic "feel", working the guitar vol / tone knobs. Small adjustments make a significant difference in the "breakup" zone

 

[Big_Al]

I do appreciate someone like Screamingdaisy not immediately jumping in and correcting me...I probably would have not listened anyway. I am slowly finding my way with this amp. I have a lot of guitars and most of them still have the stock pickups but I do tend to gravitate towards the medium output pickups for better not definition.

One big thing I noticed last night was how the amp reacted to string attached. I was amazed how the sound, not just the volume, changed according to the picking attack.

 

[ChrisOfTheDamned]

Al,

I will be using the preamp tube kit with 6L6's.
Also for guitars, I use a 94 Gibson les paul studio which is my main guitar, it's stock and sounds amazing.
My second guitar is an 06 Epiphone Les Paul standard which after numerous trips to guitar center A/B'ing with my gibson I found an epi that sounds/feels very much like the gibson
Also for effects out front this is what I run: BBE Soul vibe, Dunlop Cry Baby, Boss SD-1 super over drive, Creepy Fingers Creepy face fuzz pedal and fender pt-100 tuner.

 

[ChrisOfTheDamned]

I will post reviews once I get these little honeys installed....

I'm guessing the new preamp sections will get rid of the slight amount of hissing I have been getting???

 

[screamingdaisy]

I was amazed how the sound, not just the volume, changed according to the picking attack.

That is my favourite part about the Recto... and the main reason I keep coming back to it year after year. It has a fairly unique ability to fill up space.

I love that I can be downpicking 8th notes at 220bpm and getting mostly the snarl of pick attack, then drop into a halftime feel with huge palm mutes that take two full beats to unfold.... all by varying my right hand technique.