Roadster Mods?

[Big_Al]

Does anyone know of mods for a Roadster to increase the gain/distortion? I have been playing a Marshall JVM and love the full saturated sound of the amp but when I play the Roadster, it sounds fuller and more open but lacking in the fluid gain area.
I have gone through the tube rolling and front end boosting, I am now ready to pull out the soldering iron!

 

[ryjan]

I'd give it to a Mesa tech to look at. You must have something wrong with yours because the one I owned had more gain and saturation on both Vintage and Modern voicings with the gain knob at 1:00 than I could ever use.
Good luck.

 

[LesPaul70]

What I remember of playing a JVM (returned that one, not a keeper), its extreme settings had silly amounts of gain and compression. It was quite different from the Recto gain, it was more like what you get from some digital modelers. I guess you could get a similar kind of sound from a Recto if you added a cranked compressor in front of it - but why?

Seriously, at least for me, all Rectifiers I've ever had have given me more than enough Gain for anything when the Gain pot is at 1 or 2 o'clock. Beyond that, it just gets fuzzier and starts to lose the balls and bite. If your Roadster doesn't, there's either something wrong with the amp or with the sound you are trying to achieve.

 

[bandit2013]

My Roadster has gobs of gain, probably more than I will ever need.

If your amp is not delivering what you expect, I would definitely change the preamp tubes. If the amp is new, and still has stock tubes in it, you may want to roll the tubes in different positions.

If it is the tone that you feel is not right, install two Mullard CV4004 in V1 and V2, that will shift center point of the tone stack a bit and give you a Marshall type sound.

 

[ryjan]

Big Al, what types of guitar sounds are you looking to get out of your Roadster? If you want a more shreddy tone I'd recommend EL34's and run the lowest power settings with tube rectification to get maximum power amp interaction and it will also increase the compression for an easier to play feel.
Let us know what you end up doing.

 

[Big_Al]

I have been down this road before with my Roadster and after some brief forum searches I have read that the amp probably will not get me where I want to be without a pedal. I am not some kid that scoops the mids and turns the gain up high. I have rolled many CP preamp tubes and have swapped between EL34 and 6L6. On the JVM I keep the gain at 9:00 (still pretty high) for a liquid/sustaining solo sound. Just trying to get the same out of the roadster. Curious why I have not heard about any mods for the amp?
Anyone using the Mesa pedals with a Roadster?

 

[Big_Al]

Big Al, what types of guitar sounds are you looking to get out of your Roadster? If you want a more shreddy tone I'd recommend EL34's and run the lowest power settings with tube rectification to get maximum power amp interaction and it will also increase the compression for an easier to play feel.
Let us know what you end up doing.

Did not se Ryjan's response:
I am sure I have tried your suggestions but will give it another go...thanks!

Looking for something similar to the JVM with more oomph in the low end and a fuller sound. I get that with high gain you get a lot of compression so I would say I would like something like an EVH 5150. It seems to have the right amount of high gain, liquid feel, great for fast solos yet has low end chunk and dynamics. Yeah, should probably get the 5150 III but hate to give up on the roadster...besides, I have matching Mesa cabs-Ha!

 

[Shemham]

Whatever you can do to standard 3-channel Rectifiers, you can apply on Roadster or Roadking models.

If you want a better solo tone, I always recommend to solder a jumper wire on the lugs of three 100 ohm resistors that are in series to cathode bypass caps (small yellow 35v rated caps) on v1, v2 and v3. This will give you a faster attack/better feel and adds mids that you couldn't otherwise dial in there to fatten the tone a bit. It will also make the amp slightly drier so you have to play somewhat more carefully.

IMO it's the best mod to toy with any modern Rectos as it requires very little effort to do, makes clear difference and can be easily reverted back if the change does not suit your needs.

 

[gonzald1]

Whatever you can do to standard 3-channel Rectifiers, you can apply on Roadster or Roadking models.

If you want a better solo tone, I always recommend to solder a jumper wire on the lugs of three 100 ohm resistors that are in series to cathode bypass caps (small yellow 35v rated caps) on v1, v2 and v3. This will give you a faster attack/better feel and adds mids that you couldn't otherwise dial in there to fatten the tone a bit. It will also make the amp slightly drier so you have to play somewhat more carefully.

IMO it's the best mod to toy with any modern Rectos as it requires very little effort to do, makes clear difference and can be easily reverted back if the change does not suit your needs.

can you post pictures? i would like to try it on my roadster. thanks.

 

[ryjan]

Big Al, what types of guitar sounds are you looking to get out of your Roadster? If you want a more shreddy tone I'd recommend EL34's and run the lowest power settings with tube rectification to get maximum power amp interaction and it will also increase the compression for an easier to play feel.
Let us know what you end up doing.

Did not se Ryjan's response:
I am sure I have tried your suggestions but will give it another go...thanks!

Looking for something similar to the JVM with more oomph in the low end and a fuller sound. I get that with high gain you get a lot of compression so I would say I would like something like an EVH 5150. It seems to have the right amount of high gain, liquid feel, great for fast solos yet has low end chunk and dynamics. Yeah, should probably get the 5150 III but hate to give up on the roadster...besides, I have matching Mesa cabs-Ha!

I would make the suggestion that you should sell the Roadster and get what you really want rather than trying to make it into something it's not.
I would also STRONGLY suggest you take a hard look at the Splawn Nitro. I believe it will be the perfect amp for what you're after.

 

[Shemham]

Whatever you can do to standard 3-channel Rectifiers, you can apply on Roadster or Roadking models.

If you want a better solo tone, I always recommend to solder a jumper wire on the lugs of three 100 ohm resistors that are in series to cathode bypass caps (small yellow 35v rated caps) on v1, v2 and v3. This will give you a faster attack/better feel and adds mids that you couldn't otherwise dial in there to fatten the tone a bit. It will also make the amp slightly drier so you have to play somewhat more carefully.

IMO it's the best mod to toy with any modern Rectos as it requires very little effort to do, makes clear difference and can be easily reverted back if the change does not suit your needs.

can you post pictures? i would like to try it on my roadster. thanks.

I would if I had a Roadster instead of the Multi-Watt Rectifier. PM me a high resolution photo of the Roadster's PCB covering V1, V2 and V3 and I'll mark the resistors that should be jumped, 'though I suspect most of them can be found next to the mentioned caps as with the Multi-Watt model.

 

[blackoutshred]

"this amp delivers an awesome liquid and fluid lead tone, believe me...! (this is an advise provided by somebody else in the forum but hell, it works like a charm!)... set the gain at 2:30 - 3:00, set the highs with the treble knob to taste but leave the presence at noon or less, bass (1:30-2:00) and mids (10:00) to taste. This is going to removed the dry-sticky-loose felling to it. I use bold-tube rec-ch 3 vintage-50w for sooner break-up and a 4x12... nothing to envy the mark series for me and NO pedals required!" :twisted:

But yes... I understand what you are saying. I have a JVM210h too and the Roadster just doesn't have that fluid feeling you're refering. To me the lead tones are way better on the Mesa, they are a bit dry and unforgiven in comparison, but the note is stronger, defined and fuller. With the setup I mention earlier the amp is more alive and sounds huge (did something similar on ch 4 modern). To sum up, you can't get the same saturation and feeling you have on the JVM, it ain't going to happend doesn't matter what you try, period (been there done that)... and the same applies the other way around. I've had the JVM for 3 years + and I'm used to that feeling (artificial saturation :?: ) but at the end of the day the Mesa delivers that massive sound I was after... but with some compromises as always... Love both!

 

[Big_Al]

Put in the EL34s and it did make a difference. Still have some fizz so I probably need to revisit the preamp tubes.

 

[Nick Lehman]

Dont know how similar a roadster is to a two channel triple recto but.....

Just redid my preamp with all JJ's, also had previously got a matching set of JJ KT77's, and just the other day i picked up some NOS RCA 5u4gb's off eBay.

Sounds better than ever, but I boost with a Maxon 808, and have an eq in the loop with a slight mid cut on 500 & 1K bands. My settings are red modern, gain about 3:00, treble noonish, mids about 10:00, bass around noon or a tab more, and presence about 10:00.

I always run with loop on and set the master to noon or a hair more and just turn the channel up til its loud enough to keep up with my drummer. This way im really driving the power section, just on the brink of getting mushy. I also NEVER run in diode mode, NEVER!! Bold power setting, spongy if im diggin the sag!

Brutal

 

[2manygadgets]

I went down this path, it can be painful... I was jamming with a buddy who has a Triple Rec and it just was so much more aggressive than the Roadster. I tried a bunch of setting tweaks, talked to the folks at Mesa. They said that the Roadster is slightly different and said it was that way on purpose.

I decided I needed to sell the Roadster and buy a dual or triple.

I went to GC demoed a Dual thinking that might be enough, it wasn't. The triple is somehow a little tighter than the dual. Don't ask me how or why.

I am incredibly happy I sold the Roadster. The only feature I miss is the half power switch but I have a finished basement so I can crank it if I want to.

My recommendation is try out a dual or triple. Don't try messing with soldering and changing stuff. IF the tone isn't rught, the tone isn't right.

Good luck!

 

[Theonlyway]

Have you thought of sending it to FJA? I've considered just to make some personal customizations but overall the roadster has amazing gain. I do sometimes use a maxon od808 and it does tighten it up but I mainly run my roadster through my rivera rockcrusher and custom omega enclosure which probably makes a difference also. My cab has two v30 and two lead 80's. FJA mods offers amazing stuff.

(Not affiliated with him in any way)

 

[Big_Al]

Have you thought of sending it to FJA? I've considered just to make some personal customizations but overall the roadster has amazing gain. I do sometimes use a maxon od808 and it does tighten it up but I mainly run my roadster through my rivera rockcrusher and custom omega enclosure which probably makes a difference also. My cab has two v30 and two lead 80's. FJA mods offers amazing stuff.

(Not affiliated with him in any way)

I may consider sending it off to be modified but at this point, I am not sure if there something is wrong with the amp. Have spent many hours twisting knobs, switching tubes, different pickups, different guitars and changing cabinets. Still get the same fizzy mess that I do not see how anyone could like. EL34's do sound better to me but the preamp tubes, while they do make a difference, do not make a big difference in the sound I am getting.
The amp is still under warranty so I should probably contact MB and get an estimate on how much it would cost to check it out.

Last night I switched back to the EL34's but forgot to flip the tube selector switch. The amp did sound better but I was playing at low volume (the kids were asleep). As soon as I realized that I forgot to flip the switch, I cut the amp off. At first I thought this may be a clue...I need to do the bias mod! After checking the forum, I found leaving the switch on 6L6 using EL34's meant a colder bias. Since it seems pretty safe to do this, I will give it a try at playing volume this weekend. Maybe nothing but it is worth trying. Also want to patch in different preamps and power amps into the Roadster for comparison.

 

[Big_Al]

Started reading through the Pre500 thread...can this apply to the Roadster also?

Changing out the gain pot is no issue but locating the board components or the appropriate reference designators could be a problem.

 

[Shemham]

It shouldn't be difficult to locate the components. But first, you or someone else has to provide a high resolution photo of the Roadster PCB. We're looking for 100ohm resistors around the cathodes of the tubes V1-V3 and a 680k resistor in parallel to 0.0022uf

If you're goal is a Rev C/D type circuit, you shouldn't switch the gain pots. They were 250kohm: http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=66725#p458140