Roadster combo questions/suggestions?

[metalhd77]

Hey guys,

I had band practice tonight on my Roadster combo, and I really like the cleans and the dirties are workable. However, it seems like I can not get any good lead sound without the notes wanting to die out. There is something weird going on with this amp, and has been since I got it a few months ago. The Solo button just doesn't seem to work so great for me. It's does boost the level, but it just seems like the gain gets cut about 20% or so. I can actually solo better without the solo button engaged. Not sure why they even put one in. The effects loop is engaged, as I know the solo won't work without it engaged.

Also, I noticed that the thing is really really buzzing and humming on the high gain channels, and the gain isn't even dimed. Part may be due to the amp being plugged straight into the outlet in the shed we practice in? Might be getting a ground loop hum or something. If I hit the tuner mute, it doesn't make a noise. Should I be running a gate in the loop? I have an NS-2 running in the front end, but it doesn't make a bit of difference on the noise in the front of the amp.

I did get some different preamp tubes for it, and the new speakers (G12K-100's) should be coming tomorrow. I guess I am looking for suggestions on something to run in front for leads? I just got a digitech Bad Monkey tube overdrive, but I have heard good things about the Maxon TS808 and the OD808 pedals. Also the OCD overdrive. I have run the gammut when it comes to trying out pedals etc.

Part of the reason could be the electronics in my guitar? I am thinking about getting the BCS tone kit for my Epi Les Paul Custom. CTS pots, Vintage wiring, not sure what to get for the capacitors, switchcraft jack and toggle. I am definitly realizing the MESA's don't like ****** guitars. They also really love to showcase your missed notes and stuff.

Guess this will definitely help me become a better player by having to stick each note perfectly. Technique seems to be everything when it comes to these all tube beasts. I was thinking about selling the amp, but I really want to keep plugging away at the setup until I really decide there's nothing left to try.

Here is how I run it.....

Guitar---Line6 wireless (say what you want, but it rocks!),----Boss tuner,---Ernie Ball VP JR volume----Dunlop original wah----Morpheus Droptune (think this seems to be sucking a lot of tone!)---Boss NS-2. Through the effects loop I am running a TC Nova Repeater delay, and sonic stomp.

I also have like the cheapest cables you can get, so that may be a problem. I should get my base tone set up by just running the guitar straight in the amp with a good cord. Anyway, just wanted to know what you gurus think.

-Jason

 

[YellowJacket]

Don't you have a whole thread on this topic already filled with heaps of advice? :shock:

FWIW, you know my opinion already. I think you are dumping useless $$$s into your rig before you have even identified where the potential problem is coming from. You also were told countless times how to troubleshoot.

Possible tonesucks:

1) Guitar Player (be honest. I heard many guitarists play through my rig this summer and the tone of the amp changed with each one)

2) Guitar

3) Pickups / electronics

4) Guitar / patch cables

5) Pedals

6) Amp / tubes, etc

7) Speaker leads. (different from guitar cables)

8) Guitar speakers / speaker enclosure.

The fact your guitar says EPIPHONE on it and it was made circa 2000 immediately identifies it as a potential problem for me.

Listen, if you want advice quit asking the same questions over and over and then just doing what YOU wanted to to begin with. Read this carefully: Tubes / guitar electronics / etc. are all just minor tweaks to tone. The sound of your GUITAR ITSELF is going to impact your tone in a FAR MORE DRASTIC way. Furthermore, YOU also influence your tone substantially as well. Yes getting the right speakers and tubes will help but if the guitar is pissing you off, it will continue to do so even with new tubes and speakers. Lets ask some questions:
-DID YOU play your amp without any of your pedals in the signal chain yet? Did you actually turn it up to rehearsal levels?
-DID YOU try adjusting your pickups in your guitar? If you drop the pole pieces in the bridge position and raise the pickup you'll substantially phatten up the tone while cutting those highs you complain about. This should be done FIRST, and at your earliest convenience.
-DID YOU try different guitars yet? Swapping an axe outright has JAW DROPPING tone changing potential. If a good $3,000 axe doesn't fix the problems for you, then it may be the amp.
Yes, crappy patch cables and speaker leads are a bad idea. Getting good cables is well worth the investment.

Lets add the $$$s up here.
say $350 for Celestion loudspeakers
$100 for new electronics
$100 for tubes. Preamp tubes at that. Power tubes will shape tone more drastically but IMO, it is a subtle change at best.
$40 for patch cables

= $590.

You are WELL ON YOUR WAY to a new guitar. See what I am saying?

Do you HONESTLY want to know what changing the electronics will do for your tone? Do you ever use your volume and tone knobs? The 50s wiring / CTS pots, etc will make it easier for you to adjust tone while using your guitar controls. THAT IS ALL. Ya, it decongests the sound of the instrument somewhat but mostly, you won't lose tone while rolling DOWN your volume knob. This is a fine tuning adjustment worthy of a $3,000 axe with boutique pickups.

The hamhanded miracle solution is to try something drastic like figuring out if it is the amp or the guitar you don't like. This will move mountains, provided you are a good guitar player. Speakers also make a big difference but they are 'downstream' from the guitar.

hope this helps

 

[metalhd77]

Yellowjacket,

Thanks for the honest advice again. The reason I reposted, is because it was getting way off the original topic from some of the posters.

All I'm saying is, either I am a pretty sucky guitar player, or other amps that I have owned (much cheaper may I add), sound way better and are easier to get a nice sizzling lead tone. Tonight I am going to install the tubes and speakers and run the guitar straight in with no effects at all and see what it does. If that don't work, then I might as well keep searching for something that will, because even though my guitar is an Epiphone, it has sounded amazing with other amps.

Maybe I do need to make a trip to Guitar Center soon and just play guitars and amps all day long?

It's quite discouraging I must say, to have had a lot of success with my guitar and other amps, and then playing through a real amp. It showcases the mistakes pretty heavily. Maybe I just need to go back to square one and learn how to play guitar all over again. I am self taught, and usually could figure out stuff by ear, and also learned through a lot of tabs. I have no clue about music theory or scales or anything. I just make solos up as I go and try to stay in key.

I know you are probably cringing right now, and laughing at me, but I am seriously doing the best I can with what I know. I love playing, but that love is getting weaker and weaker every day since the acquisition of the new amp, and having to run separate pedals, as opposed to an all-in-one combo such as the Spider Valve was. More money to spend on expensive cables, pedals, etc. It's getting pretty ridiculous.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[YellowJacket]

Yellowjacket,

Thanks for the honest advice again. The reason I reposted, is because it was getting way off the original topic from some of the posters.

Agreed. Big diversion is BIG.

tonight you should:

Put your pedals in a box and leave them there for now . . .

1) Check the action and adjust the pickups on your guitar as I have explained several times. I'm pretty sure Gibson has the factory measurements on the web for everything and it is easy to do. (just be patient when tightening or loosening a torsion rod. Quarter turn tops and let it settle for a bit. After about a half turn, let it sit for a couple of hours and go watch TV or something. The guitar will continue to settle.)

You have to adjust the torsion rod so you have the appropriate amount of relief or 'bend' in the neck. Following this, you then adjust the saddle (bridge) height so that you eliminate any buzz you might hear through the amp. There are instructions for this online and it is easy to do provided you are careful and rush through things. Being hasty only ends in disaster with anything.

Once the action is correctly set up, adjust the pickups. Moving the pickups closer to the strings increases output. Raising the pole pieces increases treble and lowering them decreases the treble. If the pickups are TOO high, they will inhibit string vibration but if they are too low, they will sound thin and weak.

-try the guitar with the amp and adjust the pickup settings to taste. ONCE THIS IS FINISHED, move onto the next step.

2) Change the tubes
-try it

3) Change the speakers and try it.
-You'll have to break in the speakers. Use a clean tone and play phat, chunky, percussive chords! It could take up to 20 hours of play time before they start sounding properly 'broken in' and not 'factory stiff'.

Notice how we are working our way down the signal chain. You need to know what changes you like and what ones you don't like. If you do it all at once you won't know and you'll be liable to throw more money on the garbage. Gear manufacturers get rich because guitarists aren't systematic and scientific in their methodology. We are a bunch of mystics who overhype all the smallest details.

All I'm saying is, either I am a pretty sucky guitar player, or other amps that I have owned (much cheaper may I add), sound way better and are easier to get a nice sizzling lead tone. Tonight I am going to install the tubes and speakers and run the guitar straight in with no effects at all and see what it does. If that don't work, then I might as well keep searching for something that will, because even though my guitar is an Epiphone, it has sounded amazing with other amps.

Yes, there is a lot of information here and it is a shock to the senses. Seriously, did you try adjusting the pickups the way I told you to? It WILL affect the tone. You WILL get more beef and less shrill. Perhaps do this BEFORE swapping everything else. Have you set up the action on your guitar? Is it possibly too low or more likely too high? Super high action will make the instrument more difficult to play.

What cheaper amps have you owned aside from the Line 6. Would you be so kind as to list them? You simply might not have the right amp for you. I told you to try all those tests because I don't have enough information to help you out.

One thought, as far as line 6 amps are concerned, they basically make the tone for the guitar. They sound very digital and highly processed. They sound very even through many different volume levels and are a completely different beast from a tube amp. They sound 'good' but not 'great', 'amazing', or 'awesome'.
To put things in perspective, I would hazard a guess that my Gibson Les Paul with boutique pickups, paper in oil caps, and CTS pots would sound barely distinguishable from your Epiphone through a Line 6 BUT it would sound like night and day through my 2 channel Dual Rec. It totally annihilated a stock Gibson Les Paul Standard with a chambered body and stock pickups through a Marshall DSL head and a Traynor 4 x 12 with G12T 75 speakers.

There is a VERY GOOD possibility that the Epiphone isn't a great sounding guitar but the inexpensive amps are disguising it.
Furthermore, have you ever cranked the guitar through the amp to appreciable levels? Once you get it to drummer loudness, it should start to roar like none other.

Maybe I do need to make a trip to Guitar Center soon and just play guitars and amps all day long?

If you pick one thing to do, it should be this. There is no maybe, you MUST do this, and SEVERAL times. Go so often that you annoy them. Try EVERYTHING! Seriously. Bring YOUR GUITAR AND YOUR AMP and try like every guitar through your amp. Try Fender Strats, Teles (American) PRS, Gibson, and whatever else they have. Generally stick to the higher end stuff but try some lower end for a reference point. Some cheaper guitars are actually FANTASTIC.
When you find maybe two or three guitars you like the best, try different amps with them just for arguments sake. Good luck!

It's quite discouraging I must say, to have had a lot of success with my guitar and other amps, and then playing through a real amp. It showcases the mistakes pretty heavily. Maybe I just need to go back to square one and learn how to play guitar all over again. I am self taught, and usually could figure out stuff by ear, and also learned through a lot of tabs. I have no clue about music theory or scales or anything. I just make solos up as I go and try to stay in key.

Haha, nothing wrong with using a good ear. I learned all my theory and crap AFTER THE FACT and I play guitar as a hobby. All the gains I have gotten have been because of advances in Cello technique. I basically work on my scale forms and my picking technique and rest kind of happens by itself.
GREAT gear is awesome. It is super fun to be able to adjust your tone based on how you play and not need to run 20 different pre-programmed tones. (turn the pick sideways and digging in for chug vs light strumming for sparkle chords)

Just put some serious time in with your rig. The touch sensitivity will unlock a whole other dimension to expressiveness and tone. Trust me, playing slowly with clean and working on coordination will help you out immensely. Don't be discouraged, guitar is not a difficult instrument to work up. After my 6 year love affair with the Cello, I have realized that it is far easier to get a good sound out of a guitar. You are just ADJUSTING your technique to compensate for different gear. There is nothing wrong with reworking how you play.

Just don't think that you have to play 4 hours a day. 15 - 30 min a day of organized practice will benefit you greatly!

I know you are probably cringing right now, and laughing at me, but I am seriously doing the best I can with what I know. I love playing, but that love is getting weaker and weaker every day since the acquisition of the new amp, and having to run separate pedals, as opposed to an all-in-one combo such as the Spider Valve was. More money to spend on expensive cables, pedals, etc. It's getting pretty ridiculous.

Hmm. Welcome to the formula race car of amps. You need special tires, fuel, exhaust kit, etc. You can't simply use crap and expect it to sound great. Gear is the bane of every musician.

Thanks for the suggestions.

No problem.