Roadster at tech, doesn't know what is causing hum, awaiting

[budlovesaly]

Hello all

I brought my Roadster head to a tech where the amp is now awaiting a call from a Mesa tech on Monday. The amp tech in Connecticut could not figure out what was making the hum/noise that is apparent in all channels, and amplified more in the effects loop. NO, it is not a tube issue.

The amp is about a year old, and under warranty. My concern is that the tech doesn't seem to think that a faint squeal that appears to be coming from the output transformer is the issue. I wonder if these two things are interrelated though. The squeal is audible for sure, but is very, very quiet, and isn't heard through the speakers. It is very elusive to find it's origin, but when you put your ear up to the cab, it appears to be originating from the output transformer.

Anyone with similar issues? I have tried numerous things to fix this amp, including new speaker and instrument cables, all (ALL!) new tubes, etc.

His response to the noise was that it does seem to be coming from the output transformer, but it is probably just a noise -- according to him, tube amps always make weird sounds, with two amps not making the completely same sounds, but, that they are not something to worry myself over.

Hmm. Is that true? I just want my amp to be fixed and I am extremely annoyed. I called Mesa on this a month ago, and found them terribly unhelpful at best. I first noticed all of these issues at practice one day -- actually, everyone in my band noticed it. Then, we recorded ourselves, and bam, hum galore!

Totally, totally annoying! Is Mesa good about fixing these issues?

 

[jamme61]

if you send it to mesa, they do a great job, IMHO ( have sent them stuff to repair, very happy with them). But, I think it's worth it, to let your tech give it a shot. That will save you time and money (shipping to and from mesa). In the end if you're not happy ship it back to Mesa, IMHO. It could be a simple fix, ground, maybe a bad cap, good luck.

 

[budlovesaly]

Mesa takes quite awhile to fix things though, no? I heard their timeframe is at least six-months. How long did you wait?

 

[Chad79]

I had my triple sent back several years ago for some warranty work. I think it was 2-3 weeks before I got it back.

 

[budlovesaly]

I got the amp back from the tech exactly one week after I took it in. FInal analysis ... Mesa and the tech found nothing wrong with the amp, and in fact Mesa told the tech (and me by phone) that the Roadster FX loop is noisy by nature if you use it at 50%. He told me I would have better luck using it at about 25% open, and that they aren't really designed to be that "open." He also told me that the hiss and buzz is very normal for high gain amps.

My only resort now is to go to my local Mesa dealer, physically setup my amp next to two other Roadsters, compare all the settings on audio and video, then send them off to Mesa. This is totally ridiculous. Clearly, after changing every fricken tube, there is something wrong with the amp. I get the feeling that either:

a) Mesa doesn't give a ****
b) They are really operating on the "cheap" nowadays, and don't want to fix warranty issues.

I know how the amp once sounded, and I know how it sounds now. I am totally fed up that I have to go to these lengths to be taken seriously. I already went to try out Roadsters before I dropped the amp off to the tech to make sure I wasn't losing my mind after tube switching did nothing.

I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[plapnab]

I have a Dual Rectifier that has always had a bit of a hiss to it. I bought an ISP Decimator and it took most of it away.

 

[rectofried]

read my post about problem sovled. i had 2 rectos over the years that mesa them selves couldnt fix and had to replace. i wouldnt take no for an answer. techs will piss in your face and tell you its raining. and believe me it is very hard to find a amp tech that knows what they are doing. unless the problem is obvious like a blown tube, burnt wire, or cap . most cant fix it and wont even try. if the amp is under warranty i wouldnt accept that story you got...between my roadster and the 2 channel i have the roadster is the quietest of the 2.
mesa wants to sell amps not repair them, but thats to be said about all amp companies.

 

[mansfieldguitars]

I have in fact seen noisey plate load resistors cause hiss. Especially in vintage and modded amps. Many tone heads swear that carbon composition resistors are an absolute must. I agree that they often sound better but at what cost. They are definatly the noisiest of all the resistors types. I prefer to use a good brand metal film resistor. Also with the carbon composition resistors, they seem to be more of a problem in areas with high humidity as the resistors will absorb and cause noise and sometimes even arcing which could sound like pops. One way to check the plate resistors is simply short the resistor with a jumper wire. If the hiss goes away than you located your source. Keep in mind that there is high voltages across the plate resistor. With the amp off and capacitors discharged I connect my jumper lead to one side of the resistor and the other end to the other side of that same resistor. This will kill the output of that tube but that's ok.Your listening to see if the hiss goes away. I would check all plate load resisotrs.

Good luck and I hope this helps

John

 

[RonZombie]

What shop in CT did you bring it to?

 

[budlovesaly]

I brought it to Audio Clinic in Uncasville, Connecticut. Barry is the tech ... very, very nice guy, and he seems very knowledgeable. He went over everything with the Mesa tech over the phone. His results were much the same as mine before I took it to Barry. I called Mesa and some tech there acted like I was making a big deal out of nothing. He told me that I was free to take it to a tech, but it wasn't like he was trying to be friendly or encouraging about it. I felt like I wasn't taken very seriously, and to me, that felt a little unprofessional. Regardless, the Mesa tech told me that you aren't supposed to use the effects loop at 12 o'clock. It turns out, he told Barry something similar about the effects loop too. On the Roadster itself, 12 o'clock is "normal." If that is "normal" then why all the noise!?

The effects loop on the Roadster is honestly the biggest gripe I have. Some of the noise I can deal with, but what kills me is the fact that:

a) the amp wasn't originally this noisy, and after a complete retube, it is still noisy, yet Mesa says that this is the nature of the Roadster.

b) I have played other Roadsters just to make sure I'm not losing my mind. No noise whatsoever!

 

[budlovesaly]

By the way, this whole subject has made me so crazy that I forgot to really say "thank you" for all of the great advice and replies. I do appreciate being heard and all of you taking the time to respond.

I am trying to be nice about all of this, but if you want my honest opinion, the tech I talked to at Mesa is kind of a dick, and probably shouldn't be the one talking to upset/confused/disappointed customers. Just a little empathy would've gone a long way. Don't get me wrong, I didn't need him to kiss my ***, I just didn't appreciate him talking to me the way that he did. He even tried to tell me that my amp was fine, just by listening to it over a cell phone call! After that, I really got the impression that he didn't give a ****!

Sorry about the language, but it illustrates a true glimpse of how I felt and feel currently.

 

[RonZombie]

Bell Audio in Danbury has done good work for me.
You could try giving him a call.
http://www.bellaudiolab.com/

 

[budlovesaly]

Thanks for the info. I've heard of him from other posts as well. I drive from Massachusetts, so any farther out might not be so great. In Mass, the best we have is Aztech, but Tom is so good that he is always swamped with orders. I don't know what I'm going to do. I got an ISP decimator today which quited things immensely, but based on principle alone, I think Mesa should take a look at my Roadster. I really need to weigh all of this out -- going months without my amp by sending it to Mesa, taking it to another tech who will probably tell me the same per Mesa's phone judgment, or doing nothing. I play gigs weekly, so doing this is really inconvenient.

 

[fjk1138]

I think Mesa should take a look at my Roadster. I really need to weigh all of this out -- going months without my amp by sending it to Mesa, taking it to another tech who will probably tell me the same per Mesa's phone judgment, or doing nothing. I play gigs weekly, so doing this is really inconvenient.

I agree with this totally. Mesa (to me at least) has been the one company that I still have faith in, and I hope they never do anything to change it.

One more suggestion:

What store did you buy it from? If they are an authorized dealer, have them contact the local Mesa sales rep to come in to the store to listen to it in person while you are there.
Then let the rep contact Mesa to work out the repair details.

They should also give you a loaner for all the trouble...just my opinion.

 

[jamme61]

When I have sent amps to Mesa, they have got it done in, two or three weeks. The big time thing for me, was in shipping, not mesa. I went with 2nd day air, to cut the time down(expensive). I'm in NJ so, I had to do this (otherwise, 1 week shipping each way). When I sent a 9 year old triaxis preamp to them, they sent it back with a new face plate, free of charge and the work was done right. You're still under warranty, right?

 

[pokerrules47]

Did you get to try 2 roadsters side by each yet?

I own a roadster, and I find it a bit noisy, that being said, it's certainly not the noisiest amp I've ever used/heard.

I think your "transformer squeal" is most likely a red herring. I did the same "test" on my roadster with the mute on and I found "hum/squeals" emanating from several different areas in the amp. I did the same with my son's solid state randall, and got similar results, but from different areas. His amp is dead quiet unless you turn his boost on.

Just to give you some perspective. I often play my roadster at jamming/gigging volumes and there is hiss and hum present in both high gain channels, as well as channel 2. Channel one is relatively clean sounding but certainly not the cleanest clean channel I've ever heard.

I guess it's a matter of tolerance. If you have played a lot of high gain amps, and the Roadster seems like it's significantly noisier, and the Roadster behaves differently from other Roadsters, then it may be an issue with your amp that can be solved. If it's comparable to other Roadsters, but noisier than other amps you have tried, then you probably have made a bad purchase, and need to look elsewhere.

Believe me, I was quite perplexed when I first got my roadster. I made some changes to tubes, and to my approach at dialing in the amp, and I have come to a spot where the noise level is acceptable, and I get compliments constantly on my tone. The biggest hurdle for me was to adjust what I expected out of the amp. It's hard to explain, but even though my tone doesn't have as much gain as I am used to, I find the tone is amazing and the percussive nature of it is thundering.

Anyway, good luck in your experience...

Mik

 

[budlovesaly]

Thanks for the great post, pokerrules.

I did try out two other Roadster, and they were silent. That in itself annoys me incredibly. And it makes me feel like I've lost my mind. I mean, what avenue do I really have to turn to? Mesa is down right stuck on the notion that I am hearing things -- and at times I feel like I am! To prove that I am not, I go and fire up the ol' Roadster once more and -- voila! That same static, sometimes unbearable, very unpredictable hum is back once more, driving me as crazy as ever!

Honestly though, like you, I have come to accept it, and, like you, I have learned this past week to live around it. I even dropped more money into the amp this past week by getting an ISP Decimator pedal. I know, I know, I should've bought the G-String version, but that seemed a bit steep in price for a noise gate. It did eliminate a lot of hum actually, and is pretty transparent when it's bypassed (it is NOT true bypass though).

In the end though, I don't really know if this means I am done with Mesa altogether. I love their designs and honestly, love the fact that they are USA made, and made in my home state of California. If anything, I am done with these "Swiss Army knife type of amps." I wonder if the Roadster is just flawed from being too ambitious in it's design. I played through the Electra Dyne recently, and wow -- great tone and simplicity, and low noise as well!

I think that the Roadster is my final stop with amps for awhile though, even with all my gripes. At least until I can afford a Fender Twin and a Vox AC30 with the EF86. Together, that would be tone heaven.

Rock on friend, and thanks for your help and advice!

By the way, I switched out a rectifier tube that was looser of the two in my Roadster and the squeal went away (for the most part). I got that bit of advice from a past thread where a Stiletto owner had experienced similar troubles. Of course, everyone assumed that it was a preamp or power tube, so the poor sap bought a bunch of tubes to figure it out -- when in the end it was the **** rectifier tube!

 

[jpdennis]

By the way, I switched out a rectifier tube that was looser of the two...

Just a thought. I had several noise issues with my Mark III and had the tube sockets retentioned then discovered one of the resistors loose at V6 (my first power tube socket). Have you had the tube sockets retentioned?

Dennis

 

[budlovesaly]

By the way, I switched out a rectifier tube that was looser of the two...

Just a thought. I had several noise issues with my Mark III and had the tube sockets retentioned then discovered one of the resistors loose at V6 (my first power tube socket). Have you had the tube sockets retentioned?

Dennis

Thanks for the reply. I don't know what my tech did to resolve it, but it doesn't really matter. The tech at Mesa said that this is normal behavior for Roadsters, and that there is nothing they could do. This was especially embarrassing because he told me the same thing over the phone. What I found incredulous about the whole ordeal was that the first time I got in touch with the Mesa tech, he told me to play the amp while he listened over my cell phone. After listening he assured me that all the issues I had were not out of the ordinary. Never, ever, would I have imagined his ears could be so acutely accurate at diagnosing amps over the phone! This weasel even tried to make me feel silly for wanting a tech to take an actual look at it. I was actually hoping that my tech wouldn't call Mesa because of that experience. The problem though, is that my tech did everything he could, and said that the issue was more elusive.

Anyways, I am so sick of discussing this topic. I appreciate everyone's help, honestly I do, but this amp has really been more hassle than I'm used to. I bought it in February 2009. It was great for 8 months. Then one day the reverb stopped working. I took it to Aztech (another great tech in New England) and he couldn't figure out why the reverb failed. His final conclusion was that maybe (somehow) a wire came loose. Then less than a month later, my effects loop went dead silent, and I lost all volume on the amp. Of course, I freaked and drove to my local GC to buy all new preamp tubes. I know I didn't have to buy 6 new ones, but I figured, "why not?" Tubes didn't fix it, so I again took it to a tech. When we got there, everything worked fine again.

No, I don't have power issues at my house, and yes I use a EFI RMF noise filtering noise strip. Yes, I have all new tubes in my amp now, and yes the noise is calmed with the ISP.

Thanks everyone for the support. I have so much going on in my life right now, I am so busy, that having to drive my amp around, and dump more money into it makes me nauseous.

 

[pokerrules47]

I did try out two other Roadster, and they were silent.

I don't get it... you mean, you tried your roadster beside the other two with identical settings? Or do you mean you walked into a guitar store, turned on a roadster and got no noise from it? I find it kinda hard to swallow that you found 2 roadsters that were perfectly silent when you were not playing. Was there a guitar plugged into it, was it your guitar?

Is this your first tube amp? First Mesa? Did you try it before you bought it? What settings produce this noise?

Honestly though, like you, I have come to accept it, and, like you, I have learned this past week to live around it.

I think you misunderstood what I said. I said, although it's noisy, it's certainly not the most noisy amp I've ever used. I play at gigging volumes all the time, never use a noise gate, and know that if I set up my amp a certain way, it will produce noise.. and a lot of it.

Every tube amp I have ever used was noisy. That's what they do, they make noise. The higher the gain in the tone stack, the more noise you will see. The only amp I have ever seen without any noise, are solid state amps. Even still, they produce a bit of sound.

When you get "noise" in the form of hiss or hum, that hiss or hum has to start somewhere. If it's unbearable, i.e. interferes with your playing, you need to identify the cause, instead of masking it with a noise gate. So take a look at your tone settings, what effects you are using, and your guitar. Modify the parameters of each (i.e. remove effects, modify your tone stack, output volume, change guitars) until you find the "optimal" setting, then start adding stuff back in until you feel it's unbearable again. This will give you a good understanding of where the problem lies and what you can do about it.

My son has a solid state randall and he runs it on 100% gain all the time. I can't even bear jamming with him it sounds so horrible. He thinks it sounds awesome. The thing is so noisy when you turn it up past 2 or three I want to throw the amp out. One day he'll learn how to set up his amp properly and it will sound better.

My point here is that everyone hears things a bit differently. If I set my amp on 100% gain, it will be noisy as hell and howl and moan like a banshee (all tube amps do this). Even the manual tells you not to do this. Check page 3, keyword "unwanted noise".