Roadking II and Mark V 25 a users insight

[nathan28]

Hello,

I've owned my Roadking II since 2007, I know this amp like the back of my hand as I have loved it ever since I got it. Over the years I wanted something different another flavor to go with it, this lead me to several different amps that did not compare to the Roadking's sound so I sold them or traded them. In October of 2014 I got the Mark V 25, since October I have not played my Roadking as I'm in complete love with this amp. For me the crunch and high gain channels in the Mark are much tighter, focused, more articulate and more liquidy than the RK, it has made me improve as a guitar player because it is not forgiving at all and I could hear my mistakes. The cleans are awesome as the RK's are as well, I can't say which I like more, the RK's cleans are bigger sounding. The Mini Mark has shocked me, I thought for sure the little el84's would show their size in the sound and not have the clarity but I was completely wrong. I own a Hughes Tubemeister 18 and it sounds good but it doesn't have the clarity the RK or the Mark have. My buddy has a full size Mark V that ive played through a bunch, I've always liked it but it was always sterile kinda sounding to me, kinda of cold sounding. The V 25 is hot as hell sounding and warm. The low end in the full size V is a bit bigger but the 25's low end is plenty, it gives it a more tight feel. I've also done some cool stuff with both amps: I've ran the V 25's preamp through the RK's power section and tried all the combos of el34's and 6l6's, when i do this it gives the mark the bigger sound of the rec and less tightness. The Mark has a more saturated sound than the rec when using the rec power section. Overall I don't like the sound when using the amps this way. I still have not tried the cab clone, awesome option but nothing beats just cranking the thing up and throwing a mic in front of it. At the price point for the v:25 I do not know a amp that can compete! Sparkling cleans, crunch berries all day long, high gain grind, graphic eq, tube reverb, cab clone, headphone out, plenty of volume and headroom, I have played mine only through a rec 4x12 and it is a very loud amp, so don't let the 25watts fool you I almost did. Will I use my RK's high gain channels again, of course, but right now and since October the Mini Mark is my go to recording and gigging amp!

 

[LesPaul70]

Nice to hear you're enjoying your Mini Mark! 8)

My buddy has a full size Mark V that ive played through a bunch, I've always liked it but it was always sterile kinda sounding to me, kinda of cold sounding. The V 25 is hot as hell sounding and warm.

I believe at least a part of what you're experiencing is related to the difference between 6L6 tubes vs EL84 tubes in a Mark V. The Mark V has a sort of dry or stiff overall character, which is further emphasized by the standard 6L6 tubes. If you put EL34s in a big Mark V, it becomes a bit warmer, crunchier and more organic sounding, somewhat akin to the EL84 sound of the Mini (but different - it still packs more bottom end thump than the Mini, although not as prominently as with the 6L6s).

 

[screamingdaisy]

IMO, so much of how we think an amp sounds is wrapped up in how it feels. The epitome of this is when you play through something and are throughly unsatisfied, and then someone else plays through it and it sounds amazing. Much of this IMO boils down to how an amp feels under your fingers, and an amp doesn't feel the way you want and isn't responding the way you want then it sounds off.

Enter the Recto and the Mark. These two amps couldn't be much more opposite from each other, yet they're both capable of producing their own flavour of the "Mesa" sound.

I'm going to start with the Mark. The Mark's response to your attack is instant. You strike a note and it's there, you let up and it's gone. The amp is like an on/off switch that meticulously tracks your playing. Palm mutes are rapid fire and in your face. If you pick every note in an arpeggio it sounds like you picked every note in an arpeggio.

The Recto's response to your attack is very 3D. You strike a note and there's a snap, followed by the thunderclap, followed by rolling thunder. A palm mute on a Recto is an event... you need to schedule time for it to unfold. If you try to play like you would on a Mark you wind up with this wall of mush as everything bleeds into everything else, so you stiffen your attack in response and gain control of the amp in the process.

To me, that's the biggest difference when bouncing back and forth. When you're used to a Recto then everything on a Mark V happens so fast... you hit a palm mute and it's instantly gone. The amp sounds so stiff and sterile but the truth is that it's your playing that's stiff and sterile. The amp tracks your playing meticulously and if you want to sound big and fat... you're going to have to play big and fat, and if you want smooth and singing... you're going to have to play smooth and singing.

When you're used to a Mark and going to a Recto everything happens so slow. You're used to the amp doing exactly what you say immediately and now you have an amp that likes to take it's time to do it's own thing. You're used to thinking in 2D (cause and effect) but now you need to think in 3D (cause, effect and response). Your attack and muting technique not only affect the sound, but they affect the speed at which the amp responds. You learn to stiffen your attack to produce rapid fire palm mutes that stack on top of each other until you're ready to release the amp, at which time the amp does what people keep paying the big money for.

Anyway... the Mark and Recto are my two favourite amps, but if you want the most out of them they not only require different technique, but also a totally different thought process.

 

[domct203]

IMO, so much of how we think an amp sounds is wrapped up in how it feels. The epitome of this is when you play through something and are throughly unsatisfied, and then someone else plays through it and it sounds amazing. Much of this IMO boils down to how an amp feels under your fingers, and an amp doesn't feel the way you want and isn't responding the way you want then it sounds off.

Enter the Recto and the Mark. These two amps couldn't be much more opposite from each other, yet they're both capable of producing their own flavour of the "Mesa" sound.

I'm going to start with the Mark. The Mark's response to your attack is instant. You strike a note and it's there, you let up and it's gone. The amp is like an on/off switch that meticulously tracks your playing. Palm mutes are rapid fire and in your face. If you pick every note in an arpeggio it sounds like you picked every note in an arpeggio.

The Recto's response to your attack is very 3D. You strike a note and there's a snap, followed by the thunderclap, followed by rolling thunder. A palm mute on a Recto is an event... you need to schedule time for it to unfold. If you try to play like you would on a Mark you wind up with this wall of mush as everything bleeds into everything else, so you stiffen your attack in response and gain control of the amp in the process.

To me, that's the biggest difference when bouncing back and forth. When you're used to a Recto then everything on a Mark V happens so fast... you hit a palm mute and it's instantly gone. The amp sounds so stiff and sterile but the truth is that it's your playing that's stiff and sterile. The amp tracks your playing meticulously and if you want to sound big and fat... you're going to have to play big and fat, and if you want smooth and singing... you're going to have to play smooth and singing.

When you're used to a Mark and going to a Recto everything happens so slow. You're used to the amp doing exactly what you say immediately and now you have an amp that likes to take it's time to do it's own thing. You're used to thinking in 2D (cause and effect) but now you need to think in 3D (cause, effect and response). Your attack and muting technique not only affect the sound, but they affect the speed at which the amp responds. You learn to stiffen your attack to produce rapid fire palm mutes that stack on top of each other until you're ready to release the amp, at which time the amp does what people keep paying the big money for.

Anyway... the Mark and Recto are my two favourite amps, but if you want the most out of them they not only require different technique, but also a totally different thought process.

Man, that is an incredible discription of these amps. Right on!

I've always loved how I can get the Roadster to kind of "slide" & "bounce" through fast chord runs, very addicting.

Dom

 

[Agustín Collia]

IMO, so much of how we think an amp sounds is wrapped up in how it feels. The epitome of this is when you play through something and are throughly unsatisfied, and then someone else plays through it and it sounds amazing. Much of this IMO boils down to how an amp feels under your fingers, and an amp doesn't feel the way you want and isn't responding the way you want then it sounds off.

Enter the Recto and the Mark. These two amps couldn't be much more opposite from each other, yet they're both capable of producing their own flavour of the "Mesa" sound.

I'm going to start with the Mark. The Mark's response to your attack is instant. You strike a note and it's there, you let up and it's gone. The amp is like an on/off switch that meticulously tracks your playing. Palm mutes are rapid fire and in your face. If you pick every note in an arpeggio it sounds like you picked every note in an arpeggio.

The Recto's response to your attack is very 3D. You strike a note and there's a snap, followed by the thunderclap, followed by rolling thunder. A palm mute on a Recto is an event... you need to schedule time for it to unfold. If you try to play like you would on a Mark you wind up with this wall of mush as everything bleeds into everything else, so you stiffen your attack in response and gain control of the amp in the process.

To me, that's the biggest difference when bouncing back and forth. When you're used to a Recto then everything on a Mark V happens so fast... you hit a palm mute and it's instantly gone. The amp sounds so stiff and sterile but the truth is that it's your playing that's stiff and sterile. The amp tracks your playing meticulously and if you want to sound big and fat... you're going to have to play big and fat, and if you want smooth and singing... you're going to have to play smooth and singing.

When you're used to a Mark and going to a Recto everything happens so slow. You're used to the amp doing exactly what you say immediately and now you have an amp that likes to take it's time to do it's own thing. You're used to thinking in 2D (cause and effect) but now you need to think in 3D (cause, effect and response). Your attack and muting technique not only affect the sound, but they affect the speed at which the amp responds. You learn to stiffen your attack to produce rapid fire palm mutes that stack on top of each other until you're ready to release the amp, at which time the amp does what people keep paying the big money for.

Anyway... the Mark and Recto are my two favourite amps, but if you want the most out of them they not only require different technique, but also a totally different thought process.

Hahaha, that whole description should be carved in stone at the entrance of Petaluma... Spot on!

 

[LesPaul70]

To me, that's the biggest difference when bouncing back and forth. When you're used to a Recto then everything on a Mark V happens so fast... you hit a palm mute and it's instantly gone. The amp sounds so stiff and sterile but the truth is that it's your playing that's stiff and sterile. The amp tracks your playing meticulously and if you want to sound big and fat... you're going to have to play big and fat, and if you want smooth and singing... you're going to have to play smooth and singing.

While I think that most of your post was spot on and insightful, I would question the part quoted above. Or maybe we mean the same thing but just see things a little differently.

Personally, I think it is very relevant to describe different amps with such adjectives as 'big', 'fat', 'stiff', and so on, when talking about them in relation to each other. I would argue that a 90-watt Mark V sounds 'bigger' than a 25-watt Mark V, a Recto sounds 'looser' than a Mark, and yes, even that a Mark V is 'stiffer' and 'more sterile' than a Mark III or a IIc+. You are right, you can change your playing to make up for that intrinsic character of the amp but the fact that you have to change your playing to compensate kind of proves that the intrinsic character exists - even if they are always relative, and not everybody even experiences them in a similar way. Most of us would think that the average Recto is 'looser' than a Mark, but every now and then I come across a Recto player who thinks their Recto is the epitome of tightness (and I'm not talking about the pre 500 models here). No-one can say their experience is wrong or misguided, but for the majority, the general description that a Recto is 'loose' and a Mark is 'tight' tends to be helpful.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I agree, to an extent.

The problem with the Mark V is that it's hard to pigeon hole. Yeah, if you fire it up on 90w, flick it to IIC+ mode and dial in Metallica it's probably going to be pretty stiff and sterile... But Tweed isn't stiff and Edge feels like you're playing a sponge. With then right settings the clean channel will bounce off your pick, and between triode, the tube rectifier and the variac you can sag the **** out of the amp.

If someone asked me to compare a Mark V and a Recto I would say that the Mk V is tighter... But it's only stiff and sterile if you dial it in that way.

 

[ryjan]

The hardest part about trying to describe either of these amps is that with a slight turn of a knob you can have a night and day difference from the sound and feel you had previously. Almost like you have a different amp.

 

[LesPaul70]

The problem with the Mark V is that it's hard to pigeon hole. Yeah, if you fire it up on 90w, flick it to IIC+ mode and dial in Metallica it's probably going to be pretty stiff and sterile... But Tweed isn't stiff and Edge feels like you're playing a sponge. With then right settings the clean channel will bounce off your pick, and between triode, the tube rectifier and the variac you can sag the sh!t out of the amp.

If someone asked me to compare a Mark V and a Recto I would say that the Mk V is tighter... But it's only stiff and sterile if you dial it in that way.

I confess I am probably being anal-retentive here but when I set up my Mark V and Mark IIc+ the same way (or try to dial their high-gain sound as close to each other as possible, doesn't really matter which) and play the exact same way, there is a significant difference in the amp character and feel. Long story short, the IIc+ is organic and warm, while 'cold', 'sterile', and 'stiff' would be very fitting adjectives to describe the V in this particular comparison.
Of course there are dozens of factors at play here, the IIc+ mode on the V is not even trying replicate the particular IIc+ unit that I have. But, timbrally, it gets reasonably close nevertheless (or can be dialed to sound close enough) - the big difference is the amp feel, and no amount of tweaking can bridge that gap, IME.

Yes, the Tweed mode is cool. In some ways, it feels a bit closer to my IIc+ than the actual IIc+ mode on the V.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Yeah. I think we're going back and forth trying to quantify about something as subjective as feel, which no two people are going to agree on anyway.

8)