Retubing the Recto!

[ibanez4life SZ!]

Hey guys!

I'm thinking about giving my recto a nice retube! I'm looking to remove some of the harshness from the tone...smooth it out a bit, while still keeping the huge recto agressivness!

I've had several suggestions for different stores:

Eurotubes: JJ's....what else?!?! :lol: They might be good, but I'm a bit worried about them being advertised as the perfect end-all to every amp

The Tube Store: Tung Sol Preamp tubes all the way through, with TAD 6L6s in the power section....he said that he recommends keeping the mesas recto tubes stock, as Mesa says it is safer (I've never heard this before)

Doug's Tubes: This seemed to be the most knowledgable response: Preamp: v1- Tung-Sol reissue 12ax7, in V2 a Sovek 12AX7LPS puts a little edge on things. Then 9th gen Shuguang 12AX7C's in V3-V4 and a balanced Sovtek LPS in V5 will seal the tone. In the poweramp, RUBY 6L6GCMSTR's, though he also recommended SED and Svetlana. For rectifies, he recommends the NOS JAN Philips 5U4GB's, and criticizes the JJ GZ34's as being barely different than a SS recitifer.....

So, what would you guys recommend? Should I follow any of these exactly?

Thanks a lot for all the help!

 

[Elpelotero]

check out a post i made in the tubes section of the forum

 

[Platypus]

Doug knows what he's doing but I've found he's all too quick to bash JJ tubes in just about every conversation I've had with him...

As far as your preamp, remember that V1 is the most important in terms of tone so get a good V1.

Personally I've had the best luck with JJ's and I've tried Groove Tubes, mesa tubes of all kinds, EH, etc.. but that's my preference, you might like something different.

For what it's worth, I've found that the JJ ECC83S in V1 takes the harshness out of the 3rd channel.. but with the stock mesa tube I can usually iron that out, so don't be afraid to experiment with your EQ a bit more too.

Also, I don't recommend upgrading every tube in your amp at the same time. Try replacing one variable at a time when trying to find new tone. For example, swap out the power tubes only and then re-eq your amp and see if it sounds better.. and so on.

I can tell you that I just put 4 JJ EL34L tubes into my power section and I'm running the stock mesa preamp section and it's NEVER sounded better than it does now, I'm extremely happy with it to the point where I don't mess with knobs when I play, I just turn it on and go.

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

I think you make a very good point there Platypus....I'll definitely fiddle with the Power section alone first....maybe different power tubes will do it for me! I'll try 6L6's and EL-34s!

 

[Platypus]

I think you make a very good point there Platypus....I'll definitely fiddle with the Power section alone first....maybe different power tubes will do it for me! I'll try 6L6's and EL-34s!

Sounds good. I've tried the EH EL34s, the JJ EL34L's and the Mesa EL34's and I found the JJ to be the best simply because it had a much better bass response compared to the others. It doesn't quite have the punch in the gut the 6L6's do in the lows but it's a nice compromise for the much tigther and slicier attack of the 34's.

 

[boogieslide]

Yeah I recently spoke with Doug and put an order in. He said the same thing about the JJ rectifiers to me. Got me curious to try something different, but I decided not to just yet.

I went with SED 6L6s, Tung-Sol for V1 and then all 9th Gen Chinese for the rest (balanced in V5). I have not tried that preamp combination with the EL34s yet, but think I will soon. I did like the EL34s with mostly JJ preamp section when I jammed one practice with that config right before I got all the new tubes.

 

[dual rec]

I got the jj rectifiers and it helped my sound alot. It put alot more crunch into the tone but tightened the bass up. I like em but hey, everyones different.

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

I'm going to get JJ rectifiers, along with a Quad of 6L6s and EL-34s....I'm going to keep the preamp stock for now....we'll see how everything goes!

 

[Platypus]

I'm going to get JJ rectifiers, along with a Quad of 6L6s and EL-34s....I'm going to keep the preamp stock for now....we'll see how everything goes!

Cool, let us know how it goes. Be sure to tell Jay or Bob which amp you're ordering the tubes for when you order them.

 

[Kung-Fool]

I highly recommend Doug. He really knows his stuff. I've ordered from him twice and was completely satisfied.

I really like the Ruby 6L6GCMSTR's. It's the same tube as the Mesa STR440 except Doug will get you tubes that will get your bias closer to what it should be. I've heard good things about the SED's also but have never used them myself. Doug told me they are slightly more vintage sounding vs. the Ruby's. As for the preamp, I really like Tungsols and the C9's. I don't think you can find a bad combo with those. I personally think all JJ's in the preamp sound like **** but some people like them.

I believe the point he was trying to make about the JJ GZ34's is that the whole point of using the tube rectifiers is to add sag. If you're going to use a super tight rectifier tube then it kind of defeats the purpose. Might as well just use the diode rectifier instead and not worry about it.

 

[Platypus]

.

I believe the point he was trying to make about the JJ GZ34's is that the whole point of using the tube rectifiers is to add sag. If you're going to use a super tight rectifier tube then it kind of defeats the purpose. Might as well just use the diode rectifier instead and not worry about it.

But the reality of it is that they DO have sag, it's just tighter. I would place the sag right inbetween the stock mesa's and the SS. They really do give in at the right moment. The stock mesa ones just sound sloppy to me.....

Doug is a good guy but take everything he says with a grain of salt... just like Bob from eurotubes. I drew my own conclusions in the end.

 

[Kung-Fool]

But the reality of it is that they DO have sag, it's just tighter. I would place the sag right inbetween the stock mesa's and the SS. They really do give in at the right moment. The stock mesa ones just sound sloppy to me.....

Doug is a good guy but take everything he says with a grain of salt... just like Bob from eurotubes. I drew my own conclusions in the end.

I didn't know that. Bob described them to me as being every bit as tight as the diode rectifier...but you know how that goes.

Absolutely. An honest salesman is still a salesman.

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

The 6L6's I'm actually purchasing off of a member in this forum, and I will be ordering the EL-34Ls and rectifier tubes from Bob very soon!

I'll do some tone comparison clips too! This should be fun!

 

[Paul Secondino]

Hey guys!

I'm thinking about giving my recto a nice retube! I'm looking to remove some of the harshness from the tone...smooth it out a bit, while still keeping the huge recto agressivness!

I've had several suggestions for different stores:

Eurotubes: JJ's....what else?!?! :lol: They might be good, but I'm a bit worried about them being advertised as the perfect end-all to every amp

The Tube Store: Tung Sol Preamp tubes all the way through, with TAD 6L6s in the power section....he said that he recommends keeping the mesas recto tubes stock, as Mesa says it is safer (I've never heard this before)

Doug's Tubes: This seemed to be the most knowledgable response: Preamp: v1- Tung-Sol reissue 12ax7, in V2 a Sovek 12AX7LPS puts a little edge on things. Then 9th gen Shuguang 12AX7C's in V3-V4 and a balanced Sovtek LPS in V5 will seal the tone. In the poweramp, RUBY 6L6GCMSTR's, though he also recommended SED and Svetlana. For rectifies, he recommends the NOS JAN Philips 5U4GB's, and criticizes the JJ GZ34's as being barely different than a SS recitifer.....

So, what would you guys recommend? Should I follow any of these exactly?

Thanks a lot for all the help!

A couple of thing I can add in addition to the other advices.
:

-Rectification
Audio does not pass through the rectifier tubes or the solid state diode.This section of the amp is changing AC voltage from your house into DC voltage that your amp can use. So the tonal differences you hear are related to the amp simply being supplieddifferent degrees of voltage. UNder supply the amp and you get some sag and a spongier feel and sound from the amp and a little less compression.
Also regarding the rectification, eurotubes likes to offer their rectifier tubes as replacements for the Boogie Recto because in stock form, the Recto runs pretty cold (I've tested and experimented with two) So as mentioned, there's no point in changing hte rectifier tubes if you "do" want some sag. But I've found that using the JJ's to bump up the voltage still allows for some of that sag and helps the amp run more where it should be bias wise.
My friend has a 1st generation rack mount 2 channel recto and we ended up staying with the stock Mesa rectifier tubes simply because the amp, with the new tubes we selected was already running pretty hot. So in this case the JJ's ended up not being needed in this. I hope this all makes sense

8)

-Tubes
Each company that makes tubes pretty much has a certain character.So the tubes you select should be tubes that give you the sound that will please "you" My best advice is to try as many as you can
But in a Recto, I think JJ's work great. But Svetlana winged C 's would also sound good. If you want gobs of low end, Sovtek WXT+ 6l6's will do that whereas the JJ's have less low end but also have a tighter low end. I prefer the JJ's in this instance
Lastly, Platypus said he uses EL34's. I think that using all El34's in a Recto sounds good. With JJ's from Eurotubes, you can get a quad of 6l6 specifically chosen for your amp, a quad of El34's or E34l's, or you can get an integrated quad of two E34L's and 2 6l6's.
HAving someone like Bob at eurotubes or Doug at Doug's tubes select the correct output/strength tubes for your amp will ensure that the amp runs not too cold or too hot.And if the bias is in the sweet spot, all that buzzyness in the highs will be tamed or maybe even dissapear. Good luck