Q.Roadking) How to push the power section to be more hotter?

[powerhouse]

Guys,

I'm using RK v1. currently, and I'd like to more clearly understand how the signal flows
when the loop is activated on my RK.

RK v1 has 1 serial loop & another parallel one and I don't use the 2nd loop (parallel) at all.

When the loop gets unbypassed, the send & return levels also get activated,
and output knob in the front panel works as the overall volume controler
apart from the master knobs in each channel.

Inside the loop, the less the send level gets, the more the volume increases
and the signal from 1st loop bypasses empty loop(2nd).

What I don't exactly understand is that the return level also affects the sound even though
I don't use the 2nd loop. Mix level at 0%(off) keeps the sound closer to the original signal without
any loss, and 100% makes the sound like..processed and compressed..

Q1. What's the proper usage of the return level when I'm not using the parallel loop?

And actually, I set the channel master and output volume as high as I can, setting the
send level as low as I can. (at home)

Q2. When loop is activated, which knob controls the power section? Output or the channel master?

I noticed that high volume on output while setting the channel master low, generates more treble and a tad fizz,
which makes the EQ knobs dull while the gain being increased a bit.
And vice versa setting (Low output and high on channel master) keeps the EQ sensitivity while the amount of
gain doesn't get increased at the same volume level as former(high output/low master)setting.

Simply I'd like to get advice how to push the power section more, with the activated loop in RK.

Would you guys help me solve above 2 questions?

Thanks!

 

[konstantine RK]

Wow.. why dont you use the parellel loop? Its my favorite loop with the Eventide Timefactor on Killdry muting and you can dial in the dry with the 100% wet Eventide effect.

Not sure I would know what knob runs the power section lol Im a player not a tech

Ill keep an eye on this one

Kon

 

[greg_moreira]

Im no amp tech either.....but in general, Id have to assume that the master control runs the power section, as opposed to the individual channel levels(simply because they are independant.....yet the master effects the entire amp).

To really drive the power section.....its about volume. Yes, you can run the channel volumes low and drive the snot out of the master, and in a sense.....this drives the power section(your amplifying a lower signal from the preamp to a higher volume, so technically your working the power section). But as you said.....at reasonable volumes, this sounds a bit sterile, cause if you really lean on the master, you cant do much with the individual channels unless your prepared to get real loud.

I prefer to run mine in loop mode as a master volume amp, but then drive all of the individual channel masters harder, and only bring in as much master volume as I need. You get less headroom, but you get a warmer tone(im sure relative to the preamp section), having individual channel gain do the work.

Im sure a tech could explain this much better....but bottom line.....I hear the same thing as you. If you want to push the power section, AND have it sound well.....overall you are dealing with BIG volume. At any reasonable volume(and even club volume), I run the master low, and the channel gains higher to get a more heated sound.

 

[konstantine RK]

yea now that I am clear on what is a goin on here.... Noon works best for me with the Master of all channel volume...

Gain gets st around 12-2pm and the channel volume around 8-9

I love this amp and ask around I worked the people here to death with questions.... I changed with their advice. I got a new set of tubes and even sent the thing in for a warranty service at Mesa....

Listen to the dude above and find the path! Im well on the way and if you got a Roadking you have one of the better amps they have made.

 

[mr_fender]

In order to run the output section hotter, you have to send it more signal. You do that my turning up both the channel masters and the output control. The gain control attenuates the signal going into the preamp section while the channel master and output control both attenuate the signal coming out of the preamp section. The loop section is usually located after the masters and therefore can also attenuate the overall signal level going to the power section. The vast majority of the distortion you hear from a recto (and most Boogies for that matter) comes from the preamp section. The power tubes add more of a sweetness and compression to the sound and less of a stompbox style distortion. With a really hot preamp signal, the phase inverter tube will also distort. If you want to hear what the power section can contribute, dime both the channel masters and the output control and then use the gain control to adjust the overall volume (start with the gain at zero because it will be LOUD). Maxing out the masters and output control will make the amp more like a non-master volume amp. Channel switching amps on the other hand usually have a quite clean running power section. That's what allows you to have a sparkling clean channel and a raging gain channel in the same amp with the same overall volume. If the power section was being pushed hard all the time, your clean channel would lose its headroom.

 

[Cleekster]

i have a rect-o-verb but i think my experience might be relevant.....

The master knob will determine how hard you hit the PI tube and whatever is in the loop..... I don't run any effects so i usually run mine pretty hard..... this is essentially like the Pre-phase MV found in marshalls.

The output is a POST- phase MV that determines how hard you drive the power tubes...again mine is RARELY below 2:00....then again i'm not a big fan of Preamp distortion.

a couple of months back i did some extensive tests that revealed that while the PI is only responsible for about 10% of you power amp distortion(if you hit it hard) it is responsible for about 70% of that "Cranked" tone....so i would recommend that you get as close to 12:00(or higher) as you can with out mucking with you're FX but ultimately you should let you're ears decide....the higher you run it the warmer,more compressed,and "Cranked" it will sound...the lower you run it the more articulate and in your face(crunchy) the amp will sound....however the hotter you run the pi the less volume it will take to distort the power tubes.

 

[MusicManJP6]

i have a rect-o-verb but i think my experience might be relevant.....

The master knob will determine how hard you hit the PI tube and whatever is in the loop..... I don't run any effects so i usually run mine pretty hard..... this is essentially like the Pre-phase MV found in marshalls.

The output is a POST- phase MV that determines how hard you drive the power tubes...again mine is RARELY below 2:00....then again i'm not a big fan of Preamp distortion.

a couple of months back i did some extensive tests that revealed that while the PI is only responsible for about 10% of you power amp distortion(if you hit it hard) it is responsible for about 70% of that "Cranked" tone....so i would recommend that you get as close to 12:00(or higher) as you can with out mucking with you're FX but ultimately you should let you're ears decide....the higher you run it the warmer,more compressed,and "Cranked" it will sound...the lower you run it the more articulate and in your face(crunchy) the amp will sound....however the hotter you run the pi the less volume it will take to distort the power tubes.

I agree with most of your post. However, Mesas draw all their distortion from the preamp section so running the output higher does not add power tube distortion like on a Marshall where most of the distortion comes from the power tubes. There is certainly a difference in tone/feel when cranking the output (or return effects knob) vs. cranking the masters, but it is not a result of adding power tube distortion. It is the result of different tubes getting driven harder and adding warmth/coloration to different portions of the signal path. Maybe this is just my theory though so someone correct me if I am wrong!

 

[Cleekster]

That's a common MYTH about Mesa's....They DO get power tube distortion....try this:

Pushed mode
Gain-9:00
start with the master and output also @9;00 you should be getting a clean tone. Now bring the master knob all the way up.....this should be dirty enough to say it's dirty.

now turn the output up to about 2:00 and you should be getting A LOT more distortion......remember we left the preamp totally clean so all of your distortion is coming from the PI and power Tubes.

The red channel vintage mode has 2 additional gain stages in the preamp so evenwith a low setting will make the power section work even HARDER. :mrgreen:

set you're gain ataround 8:30, your master at 12:00 and repeat above steps for the output knob.