preamp tube selection

[magh8]

I really haven't even felt a need to swap out the preamp tubes on the V.
what have you guys been doing???

 

[Barry]

I havent found a need to swap any tubes , preamp or power tubes

 

[eudaimonia02912]

I have been swapping out the pre-amp tubes like crazy, because I am foolish. Power tube changes made a big different on the Mark V for me, but preamp changes have not. Still, I keep experimenting.

My last amp was improved so dramatically by changing pre-amp tubes that I just have this set expectation now that different tubes will make any amp better. However, on this amp, I haven't generally liked the swaps I've tried. Either they made things worse, or just different, but not better. I've ended up putting in SPAX7s in V1 and V3 for less noise (yes, I did lower my noise floor), and I have Tung Sol RI in V2 for more harmonics on channel 2.

Here's what I've tried:

*NOS JAN GE 5751: Tried this in V1 and V7, on someone else's recommendation. In V1, it took away too much gain. In V7, it sounded thin.
*NOS JAN 12AT7: Also tried this in V7. Sounded thin.
*Tung Sol RI: I found this to be too bright and shrill in V1 and V3. I like it in V2.
*Mullard RI: Too dull in V1.
*NOS EI: Can't go in V1--too microphonic. Adds richness and sizzle in V2 or V3, but sounds a bit scooped.
*NOS RFT: Didn't seem to be better than the JJs. [EDIT: Changed my mind. See below.]
*Super high gain JJ (rated 120 as opposed to normal 100): Tried in V2 for more gain in channel 2. Added gain, but it didn't sound better. Better to use a normal tube and a boost if I need channel 2 to go heavier.
*Penta, Shuguang, Ruby: Doug from Doug's Tube sent me a bunch of these in a cocktail for the Mark V. They all died almost right away. Not sure if they aren't compatible with the amp or whether they were damaged.

The best things I have done for improving the Mark V's tone:
1. Using EL34s instead of 6L6s.
2. Adding an extension cab (EVM 12L-loaded Thiele) to my combo.

 

[eudaimonia02912]

Actually, I need to change my review of the RFT.

I just remembered that shortly after I had tried it, my amp started sounding dull, and then my V7 tube died. (Probably from being damaged when I was messing with it the week before.) So the fact that my V7 tube was in the process of dying might have messed up my review of the RFT. In light of this, I thought I should give the $60 RFT another shot in V1.

So, did that. Result: It is pretty clearly better than the Mesa SPAX7. Like the JJs, it is dark and smooth, but it has better harmonics. It sounds more 3D and clear. It's staying in V1 for now, but of course I'll need to hear it at a loud volume to be sure.

My line-up right now is:
V1: NOS RFT (selected for high gain, rated at about 108)
V2: Tung Sol RI
V3: Mesa SPAX7
V4-7: Mesa 12AX7s

 

[Barry]

Im pretty sure that Mesa preamp tubes are JJs

Actually, I need to change my review of the RFT.

I just remembered that shortly after I had tried it, my amp started sounding dull, and then my V7 tube died. (Probably from being damaged when I was messing with it the week before.) So the fact that my V7 tube was in the process of dying might have messed up my review of the RFT. In light of this, I thought I should give the $60 RFT another shot in V1.

So, did that. Result: It is pretty clearly better than the Mesa SPAX7. Like the JJs, it is dark and smooth, but it has better harmonics. It sounds more 3D and clear. It's staying in V1 for now, but of course I'll need to hear it at a loud volume to be sure.

My line-up right now is:
V1: NOS RFT (selected for high gain, rated at about 108)
V2: Tung Sol RI
V3: Mesa SPAX7
V4-7: Mesa 12AX7s

 

[eudaimonia02912]

Yep, Mesa's tubes are indeed JJs. I tried some JJs rated for higher than normal gain to see if they sounded better than the stock Mesa tubes, but in general they don't offer much of an improvement. I wouldn't mind having channel 2, crunch mode, be somewhat gainier and ballsier on its own without a boost.

 

[SteveO]

I have a Sylvania 12ax7 in V1 and an RCA 12at7 in V2. The 12at7 brought down the gain in channel 2 enough to get a more useable clean range out of it. I also bought a set of M/B EL34s, but haven't had a chance to really test them out as I live in an apartment, and prefer the 6L6s for lower volume playing.

 

[magh8]

anyone know what the stock powertubes are???

 

[eudaimonia02912]

anyone know what the stock powertubes are???

I've heard they are Chinese.

 

[eudaimonia02912]

I did some more messing around today with NOS tubes. I decided to give the 5751 another spin.

I'm liking this set up right now:
V1: NOS RFT
V2: Tung Sol RI
V3: NOS EI
V4-6: stock
V7: NOS JAN GE 5751

Switching to the EI adds sizzle to channel 3, and the 5751, contrary to my earlier statement, sounds ballsier than the stock tube. I tried a JAN 12AT7 in V7 as well, but liked the 5751 better.

 

[MBJunkie]

I haven't seen a NEED to replace any preamp or power amp tubes. I did recently swap out my MB 6L6s with MB EL34 power tubes to experience the additional tonal possibilities with this great amp!

So far, I am very pleased with the great different sounds I can achieve using the MB EL34s compared the stock MB 6L6s provided in my MkV combo. However, I also love the great sounds that I get out of my MkV using the stock MB 6L6s as well!

In both cases, I am using stock MB preamp and power amp tubes and LOVE the sounds that I get out of the V. I am not one to get caught up in the hype that "other tube brands" sounds better in Mesa amps. Sure, they may sound different, but not necessarily better.

I have experienced great sounds and reliability using MB brand tubes (pre and power) in all MB amps that I have owned, and am of the philosophy of "don't fix what aint broken"!

 

[Barry]

Same for me, no problem with the stock tubes ( Im pretty sure they are JJs anyhow) . All the R&D was done with Mesa 6L6s anyhow . I still say the sonic integrity of this amp is based around the 6L6 just as all mark series amps have always been .

 

[rika_gd]

me too..Im very pleased with the amp so far..the only issue to me is to get a fat fat crunch sound, but sure it is on the el34 side

 

[MBJunkie]

I agree Barry. No question that the Mark sounds are based on 6L6s with great sounds achievable.

I also own a MkIV widebody for the past 14 years and have experimented in the past using EL34's in that amp. However, I didn't like it nearly as well and switched back to 6L6s and have stayed with 6L6s in that amp for years.

However, with the V....I feel MB must have done some testing using EL34s as well because it sounds great with both options IMO. It really boils down to what works best for each individual, but it is awesome for me that both options sound great to me.

Barry, when you get a chance give the EL34s a shot in the V....and let us know what you think.

 

[eudaimonia02912]

I envy you guys who are completely satisfied with your sound and with the stock tubes. I tend to be too much of a tweaker. I'm always trying something new just to see what will happen.

 

[MBJunkie]

Anybody that owns a V is going to be somewhat of a tweaker......else they decide the amp is not for them. I understand that many people do experiment with alternate tubes for different sounds, and my take on that is go for it if that is what you wish to do. However, I do recommend that everybody should at least give the stock amp a chance to form a sound baseline. Note: when I say that I don't mean playing it for 1 hour at GC! :wink:

After all, most of us know the V offers a wide variety of sound with all of its options.

It has never made sense to me that some people buy a brand new V and immediately retube it without giving the stock amp a fair chance. I do feel there are some people out there doing this just based on "tube talk".

It doesn't matter to me at all what users decide to do. I for one, am very happy with the excellent sounds I am achieving out of my stock MkV combo and have had it for 9 months now without a problem. Oops, I forgot to mention that I recently replaced my MB 6L6s with MB EL34s and am re-enjoying my amp with a different flavor. Great stuff!

 

[NR2112]

Ive done a lot of tweaking in the past, and when it comes to MESA stuff, I feel that they do a lot of the research for us. I mean, the stuff they put out has to be really good sounding. The tubes just match the flavor of thier amps.

After tweaking and tweaking, I found that I didnt know what way was up and what way was down. At least my ears couldnt tell a significant difference.

I think MB tubes are just as good as any out there.

SO, back to OP, Im staying with MB tubes becasue they are reliable and sound good.