Not satisfied with Mark 5... is Electra Dyne the ticket?

[dtrax]

First off, this isn't a "what's better, X or Y?" type of thread. I have yet to play an ED, which I need to do, but I'm just throwing some feelers out there. Not ready to make a move just yet.

I primarily use my Mk5 for leads. I rarely leave channel 3, so right there I feel like I'm not utilizing the amp as it was meant to be. Secondly, I find myself turning knobs far too much; I'm constantly tweaking when I should be playing. Just my compulsive nature, I guess.

What I love most about the Mk5 is the fluid, compressed feel. It lends itself to lead playing; I don't have to beat the piss out of the strings to get a good tone, like with a Recto. Does the ED have a similar "feel" as the mark? As far as tone, the Mk's higher mid voicing can be a bit... overbearing? I like my tone, just not overly joyed about it. Eh, maybe it's just a grass is greener thing?

From the clips I've heard of the ED, the tone is dark and incredibly sweet for leads. "Chewy" is the best way I can describe it. I'm in love, but clips can be deceiving. Can anyone with experience with both amps chime in?

I guess I'm after the simplicity of the ED. I really only need a 1 channel amp to fit my needs. It isn't an economy thing; ****, I already own the Mark. And for metal rhythms, I have my Triple.

Thoughts?

 

[elvis]

To my ears the Dyne is very bright, with a full, but tight low end. It can be quite piercing. It's fairly low gain, so for smooth leads, I use an overdrive or a fuzz. It takes pedals very well, and is very even-tempered.

I like the crispyness of it for chords. The clean tone is to die for.

It's not a Mark, not even close. For that I have a SP and a Triaxis. The Mark sounds dead compared to the Dyne. The Dyne is bright and punchy as hell. Marshall-y.

 

[YellowJacket]

The Electra Dyne is a TOTALLY different amp entirely than a Mark V.

First of all, it is an epic crunch machine. It is pretty much that hotrodded to hell plexi sort of tone with a dash of Mark I thrown in for good measure.

The cleans are just absolutely swimmingly amazing. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE them!!

Vintage Lo is the crunch channel. It does light overdrive / blues all the way up to a good classic rock tone. It can do some great lead tones but you really have to dig in to get the amp to speak due to the dynamic nature of this mode. It is not really compressed at all.

Vintage Hi. This is about the close semblance of a lead tone on the amp. The feel is very elastic and if you get the volume (gain) high enough it will start to get nice and thick. That being said, you really need to rely on your technique to play legato. It plays easier than a Dual Rectifier but it takes more energy than a Mark V.

The Electra Dyne has many great tones in it and I find that I am always discovering them ad I play. As for **grass is greener**, maybe if you spend a few hours with one of these you'll like your Mark V better later??

Would, I recommend the amp? Absolutely! Is it good for you? I dunno...

For a Dual Rectifier lead tone, use Vintage High Gain, and run the gain fairly high in that mode. The Orange Channel on an old 2 Channel Dual is awesome for this. The Red / Modern mode is great for rhythm but it is far too stiff and brutal for lead.

 

[tubby_cosmos]

I would have to disagree with Elvis in that the Dyne *generally* isn't a bright, ice-picky, or piercing amp in general. It can be made to sound that way with extreme presence/treble, but otherwise, it's got a very punchy, guttural overdrive.

However, with that said, I'm not sure it'll give you the liquid feel of the Mark series amps. Perhaps with a compressor and/or overdrive pedal in the mix, it might, but in itself, the Dyne is a much more responsive, sensitive amp, and that's exactly why I love it. When you mentioned that you "don't have to beat the piss out of the strings to get a good tone", that's almost exactly why I love the 'Dyne, because I CAN beat the piss out of my strings and the amp will reflect that in the way it sounds. Conversely, if I stroke the strings gently, the 'Dyne will sound accordingly.

Still, if you're not happy with your tone, the 'Dyne's definitely worth a try. It might just be that your perception of what you "want" in your tone isn't quite what you thought or that my description is totally crap. In any case, the 'Dyne is a totally different beast compared to the Mark V.

 

[MBJunkie]

OP and others.....also not wanting to be an "X is better than Y" response at all.

OP......first of all.....you say that you have mostly been in Ch3 of the MkV. That is all well and good and there are a lot of great high gain crunch/lead sounds available in that channel of the V, but there are also many other great sounds offered in the other channels (even nice crunch and high gain lead sounds) in Ch1 and 2 that you should at least explore before saying that you are not satisfied with the V. Of course, this is just my opinion.

I have owned both amps (ED and MkV), and still own the MkV for what its worth. I liked a lot of what the ED offered regarding tones, but with the shared EQ compromises of the ED.....it just didn't work for my needs at all for gigging. I need great "footswitchable" clean, crunch and overdriven lead sound from my amp. I was able to achieve a nice clean, crunch and lead sound from my ED that was footswitchable! Yes, I could achieve a great clean, crunch and lead sound from the ED when tweaking the knobs specifically for each channel.....but that didn't work for my needs.

The MkV works great for me because I can set up each of the 3 channels independently, and can footswitch in an additional EQ, Reverb, Solo Boost, Effects Loop from the provided footswitch. You can't do any of that with the ED, but hey....maybe none of these features are important to you. The certainly are not important for everybody.

One final comment that I will make is this.......if you are normally only playing the MkV in Ch3 for high gain crunch/lead stuff and don't care about clean or semi clean amp sounds.......why not just buy a single channel amp that excells at that type of sound?

BTW... I do think the ED sounds good, it just wasn't flexible enough for my needs while playing live. I will also say that I think the V sounds awesome in all channels and does offer me the flexibility that I require.

 

[MBJunkie]

Just a typo from my previous post......I meant to say, "I couldn't achieve a good footswitchable clean, crunch, lead overdrive sound from my ED". I just wanted to clarify FWIW.

 

[YellowJacket]

Just a typo from my previous post......I meant to say, "I couldn't achieve a good footswitchable clean, crunch, lead overdrive sound from my ED". I just wanted to clarify FWIW.

I think your post is a great 'devils advocate' perspective on the Electra Dyne. In my opinion, the single largest design improvement would have been to give each mode its own independently EQable tone stack. If that had been the case, it would have been the perfect amp. Now *I* would prefer a 3 channel design wherein one can choose vintage lo or hi for channel 2 and 3, but being able to EQ clean and crunch tones individually would probably make this amp appeal to many more people.

While I'd prefer to run two different settings on 'Vintage Hi' for some applications, I noticed that live it really doesn't matter. I have found myself able to play ripping solos on Vintage Lo and somehow, everything is less noticeable when playing for people.

To get around the design limitations, I was sure to really adjust and fine tune my pickups. I found that really raising the bridge pickups gives me the sort of crunch / lead tones I need. I can then back off the guitar volume to access other guitar sounds as necessary. I then adjust the pole pieces to get the right amount of bite and harmonics in the crunch modes, in relation to the clean channel. The neck pickup I set a bit lower to get a really warm and airy clean tone. This gives less output and less bass which balances really well for the crunch settings I prefer. It also balances the pickup tones well so that I can select any position on my guitar and get a good clean tone out of it. (something I LOVE about the Electra Dyne)
I found when I was EQing the amp, I would nudge the treble up to cut the bass response for the clean mode. I would nudge the volume to get enough gain but pull it back until the cleans would not be boomy. Then I would add bass in until the bottom became phat. It is kind of a give and take between these modes to really get a balanced tone. Then when I play live, I turn my gain down, my bass down, and my mids up. It makes sure my sound is very clear and that it cuts well.

Ultimately, you can fool around to make the amp work but at the end of the day, you are still compromising. If I was to record, I would EQ each mode individually before recording with it. Generally, I EQ the crunch channel and the clean then works for me so I am happy.

 

[elvis]

I bought my Dyne from a pro player that preferred the flexibility, gain and tone of his Roadster. To each his own.

I am happy with it, so the rest of you can buy something else if you don't like it :lol:

I have been on a real pedal bender. Right now I am fooling around with a front end that includes an OD808, BBP-AT, Tube Driver, Metal Zone and Carl Martin compressor/limiter. I'm doing a lot of dancing as I play, and really taking the time to feel the differences in all the tonal options. The Dyne takes all of these pedals well, and I can get a HUGE variety of tones. But the character of the Dyne is alive and well in all of them. I'm setting the pedals for light gain so that I can run them in front of any mode, and even more than one pedal at a time. I can get clean, dirty, liquid, piercing, bassy, thundering, whatever. I just don't think I am very picky about tone, because I'm happy wherever I set the controls. I alter my tone with my playing and my pickup selection.

 

[MBJunkie]

YellowJacket,

My post isn't a "Devil's Advocate" to the Dyne at all. The Dyne is a fine amp and if it works for you and others.....that's great!

Actually, my post is more of a "Devil's Advocate" for the OP who may not have explored the V to its potential before saying he is not satisfied. There again this is very subjective, but I personally find some excellent high gain rhythm and lead sounds in Ch2 (not just Ch3) of the V, and of course clean to dirty clean in Ch1. Maybe the OP has already explored these possibilities with the V and was not satisfied?

I will say this........I would feel reasonably comfortable playing the cheapest guitar from Guitar Center through my MkV for a gig knowing that I will be able to achieve a nice footswitchable clean, crunch and lead sound in the MkV. I can't say that about any of the other nice amps that I own.

Anyway, I am not dissing the ED at all.........it is a great sounding amp to me.

 

[YellowJacket]

I am happy with it, so the rest of you can buy something else if you don't like it :lol:

Villian, I am not selling my favourite amp!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

YellowJacket,

My post isn't a "Devil's Advocate" to the Dyne at all. The Dyne is a fine amp and if it works for you and others.....that's great!

Dude, I don't care if you knock the Electra Dyne for the one EQ design decision. I feel 100% the same way you do. I just deal with the limitations because the tone of the amp is AMAZING and it fits my guitar style in an incredible way.

Actually, my post is more of a "Devil's Advocate" for the OP who may not have explored the V to its potential before saying he is not satisfied. There again this is very subjective, but I personally find some excellent high gain rhythm and lead sounds in Ch2 (not just Ch3) of the V, and of course clean to dirty clean in Ch1. Maybe the OP has already explored these possibilities with the V and was not satisfied?

Yes, maybe he has not tried them. From the demos I have heard, I find the 'crunch' mode to be very intriguing. I tried a Mark V at a music store and I found the overall 'grainy' gain quality to be the furthest thing from what I want, even in crunch mode. I like the 'wooly' and 'crunchy' voice of the Electra Dyne and the 'chunky' voice of a Dual Rectifier much better. (Maybe this is his problem too?) That being said, the Mark IV mode being used at a lead tone is godly. I have never experienced something like that EVER!

I will say this........I would feel reasonably comfortable playing the cheapest guitar from Guitar Center through my MkV for a gig knowing that I will be able to achieve a nice footswitchable clean, crunch and lead sound in the MkV. I can't say that about any of the other nice amps that I own.

No kidding. Suffice it to say that the Mark V makes for a fussy, tweaking guitarist while the Electra Dyne is one **** fussy amplifier.

Anyway, I am not dissing the ED at all.........it is a great sounding amp to me.

Haha, I didn't take it as a diss at all. Your point is well taken and I think it is a very obvious and important criticism to make. I feel much the same way you do but somehow both my guitars just 'work' very VERY well with the amp.

 

[elvis]

You can have any opinion you want about the Dyne as long as it's the same as mine :wink:

Coming from a couple Mark-based preamps, I find that I miss the liquid tone. I have tried using the preamp of an F50 switched into the Dyne power amp as a lead tone. That was a disaster, as the power stage is where the Dyne's tone comes from. I took a cue from Andy Timmons and am trying out a Tube Driver as a way to get liquid lead tone, and that is actually working pretty well. I have NO experience with fuzz, so I'm still trying to get a handle on tweeking it. But it's almost where I'd like it.

I have not been able to get a heavy lead tone from the Dyne that I like. I generally use LO, with or without an EHV Phase 90 in front, for general-purpose lead, and sometimes HI for more sustain. But that gets me blues and/or basic lines. If I want to play really legato-heavy, or sweep, or get a lot of squash, or get really thick, then the TD into LO really does the job. I have a really great (to my ears) IIC+ lead tone on my Triaxis/2:90. I want something like that on the Dyne. The TD doesn't actually match that tone, but gives me the same thick liquid feel, so I think that will be OK for me. It's also got some raggedness to it that I'm starting to appreciate. I get something like AT's "Prayer/Answer" tone, which is great, actually. Then I also get the added bonus of Gibbons/Gilmour tone by running the TD into the clean mode of the Dyne.

I've been running a GE7 in the loop to try to approximate a Mark tone, but it sounds horrible. However, I only spent maybe 90 seconds tweeking it, and went for a scoop like you would do on the Mark EQ. Clearly some more work is required.

 

[primal]

First off, this isn't a "what's better, X or Y?" type of thread. I have yet to play an ED, which I need to do, but I'm just throwing some feelers out there. Not ready to make a move just yet.

I primarily use my Mk5 for leads. I rarely leave channel 3, so right there I feel like I'm not utilizing the amp as it was meant to be. Secondly, I find myself turning knobs far too much; I'm constantly tweaking when I should be playing. Just my compulsive nature, I guess.

What I love most about the Mk5 is the fluid, compressed feel.

The line I bolded is why I think you would probably not like the Electra Dyne.

I am as big an Electra Dyne Fanboy as there is. But it goes in the opposite directions of the Mark series. The Electra Dyne is more organic and much less compressed then the Mark V. It is more JCM 800 (with more gain and low end) then it is a Mark series amp.

 

[dtrax]

OP and others.....also not wanting to be an "X is better than Y" response at all.One final comment that I will make is this.......if you are normally only playing the MkV in Ch3 for high gain crunch/lead stuff and don't care about clean or semi clean amp sounds.......why not just buy a single channel amp that excells at that type of sound?

Hm, I thought that was the point of my thread, no? I'm a Mesa guy, so I figured I'd stay with the herd. There aren't too many single channel high gain amps either, so the ED looks like a contender. And that's all I'm looking for, one kick *** lead channel.

I'm not a clean channel cork sniffer, so anything with mucho headroom is fine by me. My triple rec gets the job done.

CH2 of the Mk5 is interesting, and I've found some cool fusion like lead tones using Mk1 mode. It's VERY warm (some would say muted or dull) but very fluid as well. Albeit a bit bassy, but there's so many EQ options on the amp thats easy to compensate for. The other modes on CH2 just don't do it for me.

What I love most about the Mk5 is the fluid, compressed feel.

The line I bolded is why I think you would probably not like the Electra Dyne.

I am as big an Electra Dyne Fanboy as there is. But it goes in the opposite directions of the Mark series. The Electra Dyne is more organic and much less compressed then the Mark V. It is more JCM 800 (with more gain and low end) then it is a Mark series amp.

I'm a big fan of 800s so that's what has me thinking the ED might be worthwhile.

It might just be that your perception of what you "want" in your tone isn't quite what you thought or that my description is totally crap. In any case, the 'Dyne is a totally different beast compared to the Mark V.

This is a very good point.

 

[YellowJacket]

I'm not a clean channel cork sniffer, so anything with mucho headroom is fine by me. My triple rec gets the job done.

Ya, the clean channel on the Electra Dyne is absolutely brilliant and it has tonnes of headroom. I have to say that the clean channel is the best feature on the amp, even next to those two brilliant crunch channels.

I'm a big fan of 800s so that's what has me thinking the ED might be worthwhile.

Well, it is similar to an 800 or a plexi but it is ultimately a Mesa, not a Marshall. When the gain goes up, the amp begins to take on that characteristic Boogie growl, especially in Vintage Hi mode. A scooped tone with the mids running low (10 O'Clock or under) , gain up, treble and presence high (Like 1 - 2 O'Clock) and bass at 12 O'Clock will begin to get into the Modern Mode on my Dual Recto running flat territory. It isn't nearly THAT high gain but the EQ spread is similar.

For the gain tone, imagine Boosted to Hell Plexi + JCM800 + Mark I.

The lead channel / lead tone is there with Vintage Hi. It just doesn't play like a Mark V. Not at all. You really need to concentrate and work hard with legato passagework. It takes skill and effort to get it to sing but when it does, it sounds great. The Electra Dyne will just HOWL with angst and passion when the guitar is fingered correctly =-p

It might just be that your perception of what you "want" in your tone isn't quite what you thought or that my description is totally crap. In any case, the 'Dyne is a totally different beast compared to the Mark V.

This is a very good point.

You know, sometimes you just need a break from what you're used to. I was getting frustrated with my Dual but now I have a 'Dyne, I actually enjoy plugging in my Recto. When I want 'HEAVY', I've got it.

As for the Electra Dyne, it just brings the crunch. Best way I can describe it!

 

[MBJunkie]

dtrax,

The ED may be the sound that you are after. I do fully agree with Primal's comment regarding the ED lacking the fluid high gain overdrive sound for lead work stand alone. The blue and red modes of the ED excell at medium to high gain crunch sounds IMO. When I owned my ED, I placed an OCD pedal in front of the amp for my high gain lead work and it sounded great in both blue and red modes.

Good luck on whatever you decide.

 

[YellowJacket]

"I do fully agree with Primal's comment regarding the ED lacking the fluid high gain overdrive sound for lead work stand alone."

See, this is just the thing. When the volume (gain) is set to around 2:00 to 3:00, it works extremely well for a G&R Slash style lead tone. It will do blues and rock, but when you start to shred there is a problem. For the compressed, liquid, vocal, saturated lead lines, there simply isn't enough gain on tap.

The lead playing experience (unboosted) is a bit crazy because it is extremely exposed. If you flub one note or get the pressure on a fret wrong, the gain cacks out and the sustain is disrupted. The tradeoff is that you can get really REALLY expressive playing when you can hit everything 100%.

You 'can' turn the volume (gain) higher but in typical Mesa fashion, the tone gets too mushy /muddy and you have to deal with this on both crunch channels. When the volume is maxed, the clean tone gets muddy and slightly overdriven. Not fun.

Knowing what MBJunkie was going for, I can completely understand how he could have problems with this amp for his needs.

 

[primal]

"I do fully agree with Primal's comment regarding the ED lacking the fluid high gain overdrive sound for lead work stand alone."

The lead playing experience (unboosted) is a bit crazy because it is extremely exposed. If you flub one note or get the pressure on a fret wrong, the gain cacks out and the sustain is disrupted. The tradeoff is that you can get really REALLY expressive playing when you can hit everything 100%.

This is actually what I love most about the ED. Picking dynamics, picking dynamics, picking dynamics!!!

It is actually why I probably keep my guitar action a little higher then most. I pound away on the string.

On the ED, there is a very big influence between how hard you pick a note and the tone you get out. It is so nice. But as Yellow jacket points out, it is also unforgiving.

On the more compressed and fluid lead tones, picking dynamics play a smaller role, but the amps are also more forgiving.

The Electra Dyne is my favorite amp.

But the OP comments about loving the compressed fluid tone made me think the ED might not be the right amp for him.

 

[YellowJacket]

I agree, the Electra Dyne is purely magical because it is so dynamic and responsive. It really takes tonal nuance almost to the level of a Cello! Man, when you dig in the sort of control you can have over tone production is surprising for an Electric Guitar. Buy the Electra Dyne if you like to wail like Jimmy Page. Pass if you want to shred.

 

[MBJunkie]

ok.....the Dyne is magical because of its "touch dynamic response". I do agree the Dyne has a nice dynamic touch, but I can say the same about the V depending on which modes, power settings and and how one chooses to set it up.

IMO, the MkV immediately gets categorized as a high gain shred monster due to its previous Mark heritage. However, I am certainly not a shred monster (and never will be), but I much prefer my V over the ED that I once owned. Why? Because I can easily achieve excellent footswitchable clean/slightly distorted clean, crunch rhythm, and high gain lead sounds in 3 independent channels without compromise in a live situation!

Secondly, a great clean tone for me is an absolute must from any amplifier! While I was able to achieve a good clean tone from the Dyne in the clean mode stand alone.......the settings that I preferred for the clean sound was not conducive to what I was after in the blue and red high gain modes. Yes, even with working with the clean trim toggle and volume located in the back of the amp......it just didn't work for me!

Thirdly, while on stage with the ED........when I tweaked any parameter of the shared gain/tone controls for a particular voicing of any of the modes.......it significantly altered the sound of the other modes which really didn't work for me at all. Sometimes the differences in sounds were subtle....often times they were extreme requiring me to reach to the back of the amp on the fly to either reduce or increase the clean level.

These are the reasons the ED didn't work for me......it has very little to do with picking dynamics, compressed or non compressed sounds, which amp sounds the best or the type of music that I play! Simply put, the compromises inherent with the ED just didn't work for me! :wink: I do understand how it may be the "right amp" for many others though. :mrgreen:

 

[YellowJacket]

Haha, thanks for the summary, MBJunkie!

What you have to do with an amp like the 'Dyne is to set up the guitars to work with it. Like I said, I use a PAF style pickup in the neck position and use something hotter and more modern for the Bridge. I also have my bridge pickup fairly high and my Neck pickup fairly low. I tweak the pole pieces after to further fine tune my setup.

But yes, we've beat the 'design compromise' bit to death. Ultimately the Mark V has a very VERY different voice from Electra Dyne. I tried a Mark V (which means absolutely nothing because 'trying one' really means gigging it for a year) and the overall quality of the tone didn't appeal to me much. What stood out (sorry, but it did) was the liquid high gain lead voice in channel 3, especially in Mark IV mode. That and the Clean I liked best. Don't get me wrong but everything else seemed very 'meh' to me. The Electra Dyne -on the other hand- absolutely annihilates all those edge of breakup type tones but trying to dial in an even usable shred tone is borderline, even with a pedal. The point of my comment was really not to focus on what the Mark V can do, but what the Electra Dyne CAN'T do. We weren't implying that the Mark V has any shortcomings because it really doesn't. Definitely the closest thing one can get to a perfect amp, if you are into that sort of thing...

Anyhow, apples to oranges. Now we can restart the entire argument.