New to the world of tube amps, some questions.

[Koreth]

Greetings everyone. I've recently entered the world of tube amplification with my purchase of a Peavey ValveKing 112. I've not had a chance to play with it much yet, mainly due to a lack of time and the discovery that this 50W combo can get pretty **** loud pretty quick, which tends not to be acceptable in residential areas. I've noticed a few things though that have got me wondering about tone, and what things have different sorts of an effect on tone.

So, what parts of an amp have different effects on a tone, how and why? To what degree do the various parts of an amp have an effect on tone? Does one part of the amp (speaker, power tubes, EQ, preamp, etc.) have more of an effect on tone than the other? Although I realize I should fiddle with the amp for a bit to see what kind of tones I can produce, if I were to look to improve the amp's tone, what parts would I want to look at and/or change first? Speaker? pre-amp tubes? power amp tubes?

Also, is there a way to quiet the amp down so I can turn it and get its full-power tones without it becoming melt-your-face-and-get-you-cited-for-disturbing-the-peace-loud? According to the manual, if I connect an external cabinet up to amp, it mutes the internal speaker, so I guess I could connect an attenuator to it, but that would require the purchase of another speaker cab. Is there perhaps some kind of power tube that's a low power version of the 6L6 or something (like this 6V6 I've heard about)?

 

[SixVeeSix]

First off, welcome to TubeWorld! The speaker and V1 (the preamp tube closest to the input jack) will make the biggest difference in tone. 6V6 should not be used in an amp that is designed for 6L6 unless the circuit is modified. Some Mesa amps have a setting (switches) to enable this change. It really won't be much quieter though, 15 watts is still a lot of power. You will need to turn up to get output tube saturation otherwise all your gain is in your preamp. Consider adding a small amp to your collection, isn't there a tiny ValveKing that uses just one EL84 and puts out 5 watts? Have fun!

 

[Rocky]

what should you change first....


the answer to that is 'none of us know' It really depends on your ear. f the amp currently does what y ou want it to then dont change anything.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

Koreth, I wouldn't spend much money trying to change the Valveking. You got into tube amps very cheap with Peaveys Chinese built amp.

I'd say play it some and think about the tone in your head, and look at some better built amps.

You got in for $400.00 (I hope), but you can put a Celestion/Weber/EV/ whatever in it, the best tubes money can buy, and end up with nearly a grand in an amp that will STILL be worth $200.00 used.

Best of luck.

 

[SixVeeSix]

Koreth, I wouldn't spend much money trying to change the Valveking. You got into tube amps very cheap with Peaveys Chinese built amp.

I'd say play it some and think about the tone in your head, and look at some better built amps.

You got in for $400.00 (I hope), but you can put a Celestion/Weber/EV/ whatever in it, the best tubes money can buy, and end up with nearly a grand in an amp that will STILL be worth $200.00 used.

Best of luck.

Murphy Slaw nails it! This is the real world talking to you.

 

[Koreth]

I kinda figured it was a cheap amp when I saw it was all tubes for just over $400, which was in the same price range as some of the solid-state stuff that was for sale. All the same it sounds better to my ears than any of the solid state stuff I'd heard previously. I still have my cheap 4W Wal-Mart amp, which doesn't have to be too loud, but its tone is disgusting, and I prefer not to use it. Thus, I was wondering if there was any way to quiet the Peavey while still getting its full tone.

I do think I understand what you mean when you warn me not to spend too much on upgrading the Peavey. If I spent too much, I could end up in a situation where I've now got an amp that sounds decent, but for the money I spent getting it to that level, I could have purchased something that is head and shoulders above the cheap Peavey in tone (like Mesa! ) and still had some money left over. Is this what you are trying to warn me of?

 

[SixVeeSix]

I kinda figured it was a cheap amp when I saw it was all tubes for just over $400, which was in the same price range as some of the solid-state stuff that was for sale. All the same it sounds better to my ears than any of the solid state stuff I'd heard previously. I still have my cheap 4W Wal-Mart amp, which doesn't have to be too loud, but its tone is disgusting, and I prefer not to use it. Thus, I was wondering if there was any way to quiet the Peavey while still getting its full tone.

I do think I understand what you mean when you warn me not to spend too much on upgrading the Peavey. If I spent too much, I could end up in a situation where I've now got an amp that sounds decent, but for the money I spent getting it to that level, I could have purchased something that is head and shoulders above the cheap Peavey in tone (like Mesa! ) and still had some money left over. Is this what you are trying to warn me of?

Exactly that. Actually doesn't take much more than your $400 to get into a Mesa, you just have to shop a bit. The Subway series or the Studio .22 Caliber or even a DC3 can be had for $450-550 on a fairly regular basis. I paid $600 including shipping for my Maverick Dual Rectifier 1-12 combo. It will crush a Valve King like a tiny insect and is worth upgrading speakers and tubes etc. Enjoy your amp, maybe even keep it as a backup or to go stereo. Save up some more green and go Mesa. It is always better to buy the good stuff in the first place if possible, then you have no regrets. If you buy used gear wisely, you can always get your full investment out of it and even make a buck here and there. Good luck!

 

[Murphy Slaw]

See, the thing is, you're still okay. You are a beginner and WE ALL WERE BEGINNERS, and we all (probably) owned some Peavey gear. I used a Peavey Classic 50 2;12 for a few years when my Marshall 1/2 stack was too much amp for the smaller clubs.

Nobody here is gonna dis your amp, as a beginner.

Keep it and play it a few years, get yer chops, it's already lost most of the value it's gonna lose.

I'd say now get some lessons, do some jams (your Peavey is just fine for that) and get the fever. It'll all start to come to you in time.

I wish you the very best. Good luck. Your amp is just fine.

 

[SixVeeSix]

See, the thing is, you're still okay. You are a beginner and WE ALL WERE BEGINNERS, and we all (probably) owned some Peavey gear. I used a Peavey Classic 50 2;12 for a few years when my Marshall 1/2 stack was too much amp for the smaller clubs.

Nobody here is gonna dis your amp, as a beginner.

Keep it and play it a few years, get yer chops, it's already lost most of the value it's gonna lose.

I'd say now get some lessons, do some jams (your Peavey is just fine for that) and get the fever. It'll all start to come to you in time.

I wish you the very best. Good luck. Your amp is just fine.

What he said! I played in a band for years with a Peavey solid state amp. I took all the logos off and put black tape over the printing on the chassis face and good players would come up to me and say "What are you using, is that a Boogie?". :shock: I am not making this up, that was in between Mesas when I was gigging often and just didn't want to deal with tube failures. I STILL take a Peavey Backstage 50 with a Scorpion speaker with me to any important gig. I run stereo but I know if a tube fails, the Peavey will finish the show. That is why I suggested you keep your amp and buy a Mesa when you have the money. All that really matters is having some fun while you can. Peace, SixVeeSix

 

[212Mavguy]

Hi,

First of all I'd like to endorse the comments of Murphyslaw and sixveesix as well intended and to also be trusted. I once bought an old Ampeg amp of not so wonderful circuit board design and put way too much money in it, it had some problems with grounding and had a terminal hum problem that was never fixed despite it sitting in a tech's shop for 4 1/2 months. It sits in my storage unit as useless junk, shame on me for not getting rid of it.

As far as your wanting to get the full volume tones at lower volume levels, getting a 5 watt or smaller tube amp is a good idea, but it can be spendy. Epiphone makes a simple low power amp, think it's called the valve junior, for relatively little cash, like a c-note. Another way to do that is to purchase what is called an attenuator, it is connected between the speaker output jack and the speaker, matched to the amps speaker output impedance, allows the amp to be cranked even up to full power and keep the sound quieter to taste. With that said,the bad news is that they are also spendy, in the 200+ dollar range. Some say that attenuators have some effect on the overall tone, I'd have no problem agreeing with that statement. After all some speakers don't sound the same at low volumes as they do when cranked. Not all attenuators have similar designs. There is one company that makes a couple of different styles, the company that makes Weber speakers, they also have some of their their attenuators in a kit form. Think it's webervst.com. One potential problem with using an attenuator is decreased lifespan of the output tubes because at cranked volumes there are lots more electrons flowing through the tubes and the harder one works the tubes the shorter the lifespan. With that said, it still takes a heck of a long time for a tube to wear out. The product pumping salesman at the store might say change them every two or 3 months, others use the same tubes for years. It depends on the tube quality of build and type of usage.

As far as what parts of the tube amp are most important for determining tone, a not so well known but genius tube amp builder named Chris Siegmund (siegmundguitars.com) has a term he calls the output trio. It is made up of the output transformer, the power tubes, and the speaker. Of the three parts, the output transformer is the most important. The speaker is important and changing it out is pretty quick and easy to do and does have a large effect on the tone. The power tubes are important because different brands of the same tube type have different sonic characteristics. It's not just the tubes, there is an adjustment of the power tubes' idle current, called bias, that is very important for the way that the tubes amplify the signal going through them and the sound from the speaker that results. Compared to switching out the speakers and tubes, the output transformer is more problematic to switch out and therefore is pretty much ignored by most. I have done that in a simple amp and yes, it makes a huge difference depending on what was originally installed.

Finally, in another post sixveesix makes the valid point about changing out the first position premp tube to another. Usually that tube is referred to as V1 in ampweenie jargon, it is usually the closest tube to the amp's input jack in a guitar amp. Swapping out different tubes for tonal comparison is called tube rolling. It's fun to do and listening for the differences a great way to train one's ear. There are what can be described as several types of compatible preamp tubes with the same pin connections, this is called pinout. 12ax7, 5751, 6681, 6201, 12at7, 12ay7, 5965, 5963, 5814a, 12au7 are all pinout compatible but amplify the input signal at different amounts. Putting in order strongest to weakest, 12ax7-6681, 5751, 12at7-6201, 12ay7-5965, 5814a-5963-12au7. Those designations with a dash between are equivalents of the same level. I have rolled tons of tubes with sixveesix when we lived in the same town a couple of years ago and it greatly benefited both of us to listen to vintage old stock tubes collected over the years from various sources. Hope this helps. Peace.

212Mavguy

 

[sam adams]

As stated, the Valve King isn't exactly the high end of Peavey's lineup, but it is priced accordingly.

The guitarist in my drummer's side project has a VK100 head at our bandroom. I think there are some usable tones inside them. The amp is only so much of the equation. But when I plug into my JCM 800 or 5150 I hear a definite improvement.

Just knock the knobs around until you find a sound you like. Changing things such as tubes and speakers and whatnot will only do so much for an amp so it may just end up being that you bought an amp that wont suit you. People can blame the pricetag, people can blame the amp maker, but honestly I've bought "botique" amps costing over $2k and found I'm happier with a mass produced amp costing less than half that. It's part of a seemingly never ending cycle that most if not all of us fall into. If it sounds good, it IS good.

As far as volume goes. You could get an attenuator and run it between the head part of your combo and the speaker. This would allow you to get more tube saturation at lower volumes.