Need some wisdom...

[barryswanson]

So I have owned a Multi Watt Dual Recto for about 18 months now and I find I never really just get lost in its sound and just play. I find my self forever turning knobs on it, changing channels, changing modes, changing to EL34's and then back to 6L6's and changing speaker cabs.
I bought it new when I was in Texas last year and have never really fallen for it.

So my question is this should I just sell it or does it need new pre amp tubes?

The reason I ask about the tubes is because it's dated 7-22-13 on the chassis and I bought it around June 2014. It was the display one at the guitar store and had me wondering if after a year with everyone demo-ing it at the store have the pre amp tubes started to deteriorate to the point I'm at now when it just sucks tone wise?

I've never gigged this amp I'm just a bedroom player and have the luxury of being able to run it loud-ish.

So should I just part with it or give some pre amp tubes a go?

 

[kramerxxx]

The preamp tube will last for years and years, so they aren't tired but they might not be your cup of tea.

The most tone sharing socket is V1. I have a Tung-sol in the one. You could buy that for about $20.

Honestly I think the Rectifiers are dullish sounding by design, with your version being slightly better than the older one, but not as present as the very early ones.

It helps putting an od or booster pedal, of some flavor, in front of the amp & a FEW in the loop.

Some prefer to not use pedals with this amp, but it really benefits from them.

And the nature of the design is what it is. Lots of dual recs get sold new, to people that really don't like its sonic range, the low-mods. Marshalls operate at the other end of this speculum. Just depends on what you want, and no one else can tell you what you hear. You have to decide.

Me, I can play almost any amp for a bit, and make it work. But I'm not fond of the lower-mids amps, like the Rectifiers, this I've had mine modded. It sounds better, but not exactly what I want.

 

[kramerxxx]

The preamp tube will last for years and years, so they aren't tired but they might not be your cup of tea.

The most tone sharing socket is V1. I have a Tung-sol in the one. You could buy that for about $20.

Honestly I think the Rectifiers are dullish sounding by design, with your version being slightly better than the older one, but not as present as the very early ones.

It helps putting an od or booster pedal, of some flavor, in front of the amp & a FEW in the loop.

Some prefer to not use pedals with this amp, but it really benefits from them.

And the nature of the design is what it is. Lots of dual recs get sold new, to people that really don't like its sonic range, the low-mods. Marshalls operate at the other end of this speculum. Just depends on what you want, and no one else can tell you what you hear. You have to decide.

Me, I can play almost any amp for a bit, and make it work. But I'm not fond of the lower-mids amps, like the Rectifiers, thats why I've had mine modded. It sounds better, but not exactly what I want.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I find my Roadster really difficult to dial in with all stock preamp tubes. A single Tung-Sol in the V1 is all I need to sort it out. If that doesn't do it for you then I'd say it's safe to say it's not the amp for you.

One thing I'll point out is the sensitivity of the treble knob. Moving small increments in the 11:30 to 1:00 range is how I find the sweet spot for my tastes. Being 10-15 minutes off is enough to make it not quite right for me.

Also, when I'm playing at home i scoop the mids. Somewhere around 8:00 to 10:00, depending on the vibe I'm going for.

 

[afu]

What kind of sound do you want?

What settings do you have for mode, power, and rectification?

 

[barryswanson]

Thanks for the advice I'll give the Tung sol a go.

I don't what sound im after I just know I like it when I hear it. My Mark V took a very long time to dial in but I haven't touched that for a long time now.

I do favour vintage mode with diode rectification on channel three but it's not quite there. It lacks saturation when the gain is turned up and I only seem to get fizz. I run everything around noon except the mids. Modern mode for me is a boss metal zone just rubbish.

I'm interested in boosting the front end but I've never been a pedal man I just find they all throw a bit of fizz on top. I dig the silky smooth Mark distortion which makes me wonder if I'm never going to like it. Can a tube set smooth it out or is there a simple mod I can do? But I guess that's the nature of the beast and what makes a recto a recto.

So why don't I sell it instead of trying to make it more Mark like, I dunno..

 

[Shemham]

I have Multi-Watt Rectifier and I know what you're talking about. I used to have similar problems when I first got my Recto. One problem is that Rectos are designed to sound that way; mid frequencies of Rectos are limited in preamp by three 100ohm resistors placed in series to cathode bypass capacitors. They are mainly responsible for the bulky feel and hard times with lead tones. People usually compensate this by using boost/OD pedal in front to emphasize mids. Other option is to bypass these three resistors by soldering jumper wires on their lugs. I modded my Recto in this manner and it turned out much better. Firstly, the amp response and feel changed. It now had more immediate feel to it and better dynamics. Secondly, single note sounds now received those lost mids so now it did leads really well. Extremely simple mod even if you've no understanding of electronics. I can send you guidelines if you wish.

You may also want to try turning mids even up to 2 o'clock while keeping keeping bass and treble knob pretty low. Set the treble too high (which isn't even that high), the amp becomes fizzy. Set the bass too high, you get more mud and too boomy lowend. Use presence then as a sort of joint brightness/aggression level knob.

 

[barryswanson]

I have Multi-Watt Rectifier and I know what you're talking about. I used to have similar problems when I first got my Recto. One problem is that Rectos are designed to sound that way; mid frequencies of Rectos are limited in preamp by three 100ohm resistors placed in series to cathode bypass capacitors. They are mainly responsible for the bulky feel and hard times with lead tones. People usually compensate this by using boost/OD pedal in front to emphasize mids. Other option is to bypass these three resistors by soldering jumper wires on their lugs. I modded my Recto in this manner and it turned out much better. Firstly, the amp response and feel changed. It now had more immediate feel to it and better dynamics. Secondly, single note sounds now received those lost mids so now it did leads really well. Extremely simple mod even if you've no understanding of electronics. I can send you guidelines if you wish.

You may also want to try turning mids even up to 2 o'clock while keeping keeping bass and treble knob pretty low. Set the treble too high (which isn't even that high), the amp becomes fizzy. Set the bass too high, you get more mud and too boomy lowend. Use presence then as a sort of joint brightness/aggression level knob.

Shemham I'm very interested in this mod! Could you please send me the diagram? I'm an automotive electrician by trade so I'm pretty handy on the soldering iron. It appeals to me because you speak of immediacy which is something that I wish the recto had. But that cold grainy fizz is what I want to iron out but still retain the fullness of the amp.

 

[Shemham]

PM sent.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I do favour vintage mode with diode rectification on channel three but it's not quite there. It lacks saturation when the gain is turned up and I only seem to get fizz. I run everything around noon except the mids.

The difference between a Mark and a Recto is that a Mark generates distortion by cascading one gain stage into another, creating a lot of saturation and compression in the process. Rectos generate a lot of their distortion via a cold clipping stage, which gives it that characteristic chainsaw grind without a lot of saturation/compression.

Boosting adds more cascading gain stages. It'll up the compression/saturation, and while the additional cascaded stages will be smooth they're still stacking into the cold clipping stage, so there will always be the hard clipping present in the Rectos sound. Whether that's an issue or not is a personal call, but the only way to know is to try it.

Modern mode for me is a boss metal zone just rubbish.

I don't use modern either, but it can do some cool sounds at lower gain levels.

 

[afu]

It's funny, because Modern is why I bought it, but now I'm using Raw a lot. Vintage gets messy more easily. It wasn't until I came here that I found so many people who prefer Vintage. 8)

I just found something tonight that might help a bit or help someone else. I turned off the loop, used Vintage, Spongy, and Diodes, with gain and volume between 9 and 10 o'clock. I dialed in a sound and then worked to get a similar sound with the loop activated. At first, I kept the volume and gain the same, raised the FX Send to 1:30 or so, activated Solo at 8:30, and put Output at Noon. The feel and response was in the same ballpark. It isn't exact, but it sounded really good and stayed firm. I was going for a "Highway To Jimi Van Zeppelin" kind of thing. I adjusted the channel volume up slightly to get it back to about the level it had been and I think it was magical. Hopefully I don't wake up tomorrow, turn it on, and go WTF!!!! At this moment, I'm grinning, because it was awesome.

I did pretty much the same thing with the Clean and it sounds really nice. Kinda Voxy.

I have the simple, serial loop mod for this older 3 Ch. I'm not sure if that affects the results too much or not.

 

[Blaklynx]

It lacks saturation when the gain is turned up and I only seem to get fizz. I run everything around noon except the mids. Modern mode for me is a boss metal zone just rubbish.

I'm interested in boosting the front end but I've never been a pedal man I just find they all throw a bit of fizz on top. I dig the silky smooth Mark distortion which makes me wonder if I'm never going to like it. Can a tube set smooth it out or is there a simple mod I can do? But I guess that's the nature of the beast and what makes a recto a recto.

You want smooth tone? Turn all the tone knobs to zero. 100% instant fizz-less. Use an EQ up front / in loop to adjust the tone. If amp gain isn't enough, use an OD for more compression/drive if you really need to.

I posted about it a few months ago http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=69962

You've got nothing to lose and everything to gain.....

I use spongy and rectifier settings and raw/vintage modes.

Let us know how you go.

-B

 

[barryswanson]

It lacks saturation when the gain is turned up and I only seem to get fizz. I run everything around noon except the mids. Modern mode for me is a boss metal zone just rubbish.

I'm interested in boosting the front end but I've never been a pedal man I just find they all throw a bit of fizz on top. I dig the silky smooth Mark distortion which makes me wonder if I'm never going to like it. Can a tube set smooth it out or is there a simple mod I can do? But I guess that's the nature of the beast and what makes a recto a recto.

You want smooth tone? Turn all the tone knobs to zero. 100% instant fizz-less. Use an EQ up front / in loop to adjust the tone. If amp gain isn't enough, use an OD for more compression/drive if you really need to.

I posted about it a few months ago http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=69962

You've got nothing to lose and everything to gain.....

I use spongy and rectifier settings and raw/vintage modes.

Let us know how you go.

-B

Yeah I tried that when I read it in your post. To me it sounded like I dug hole and put my cab in it and back filled it.

 

[Blaklynx]

Yeah I tried that when I read it in your post. To me it sounded like I dug hole and put my cab in it and back filled it.

Did it really sound that muffled? Strange. I guess it depends on guitar/pickups/cab/preamp-power tubes. I also have the Roadster (if that makes any difference)

To give you my bare basics just for comparison purposes with your gear:

Guitar: Ibanez RG440 w/trem
Pickup most used: bridge SD JB humbucker
Cab: Mesa Recto 2x12 cab w/V30's.
Preamp tubes:
v1 Sylvania 5751
v2-v5 mix of Mesa and JJ 12AX7 (supposedly the same tube but I've had some of these tubes for years so not sure if they are the same)
v6 Sovtek 12AX7 LPS
Power Tubes: TAD EL34B

I use EQ pedals pre and post and OD/Dist pedals out front, too.

-B

 

[afu]

When I run my channel volumes around Noon, I often turn the FX Send down to 10:30 - 11:00. It clears up some of the sound of the FX Return stage being pushed. Then I use Solo to add some bottom and punch back in once the Output is almost at the volume I need. Solo is darker than Output and it is easier to adjust on the fly than the Send.

As an example for Vintage:

P: 9
V: 12
G: 11:30
B: 11:30
M: 12
T: 1

O: 10
S: 9

 

[barryswanson]

So I go a Tung Sol and put it in the V1 position. It absolutely changed the sound of the amp but not sure if I like it yet. It seemed to tame a lot of the highs add compression and drop the gain. Does that sound right is that what everyone else finds?

 

[siggy14]

It lacks saturation when the gain is turned up and I only seem to get fizz. I run everything around noon except the mids. Modern mode for me is a boss metal zone just rubbish.

I'm interested in boosting the front end but I've never been a pedal man I just find they all throw a bit of fizz on top. I dig the silky smooth Mark distortion which makes me wonder if I'm never going to like it. Can a tube set smooth it out or is there a simple mod I can do? But I guess that's the nature of the beast and what makes a recto a recto.

You want smooth tone? Turn all the tone knobs to zero. 100% instant fizz-less. Use an EQ up front / in loop to adjust the tone. If amp gain isn't enough, use an OD for more compression/drive if you really need to.

I posted about it a few months ago http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=69962

You've got nothing to lose and everything to gain.....

I use spongy and rectifier settings and raw/vintage modes.

Let us know how you go.

-B

You want a smooth tone turn the amp up, way up and the fizz will be gone.