My new Stiletto Aces arrived. Couple of questions...

[Dawg Fan]

I recently picked up my new Stiletto Ace 1x12 na d had a few observations and comments. My initial impression is that Mesa did a great job with this thing. I covers quite a bit of tonal ground. As a former Series 1 Deuce owner, I can say that the Ace sounds much different, particularly of the Fluid Drive mode. Some may or may not like the new sound. I personally like both. There is definitely significantly more gain on tap with the Ace.

The one I ordered was the standard green with tan grille. However, it was damaged in shipping. Luckily they also received a British Bronco Tan one as well, which I jumped all over.

One of my questions concerns the use of the hard by-pass on the loop. Should I be using this? When I do, the global output volume nob does not function. Each channels output is solely controlled by its master volume. Alternatively, if I leave the loop engaged, I can use the channel master and output interactively. The interactive set-up is similar to how my Mark-IV operates.

I have noticed that when you by-pass the loop, it becomes more difficult to control the volume. I.e., a little twist of the master results in a huge change in volume.

Suggestions?

 

[Guitarzan]

Live gigs run with the bypass. If your just in the garage or bedroom have the loop engaged and use the loop vol as a master.

 

[FPFL]

There is no should here. Both work and I don't find the jumps that huge but I'm playing in a practice space not in a basement or spare room.

The loop doesn't kill the tone and the functionality is nice, so i'd leave it on all the time unless you run nothing in the loop. I can't live without a little delay now and again.

 

[jbird]

All F/X Loops degrade tone to certain degrees! If you can live without the functionality, and use no effects, I'd hard bypass it for optimal tone! This of course is only my honest opinion! :idea:

 

[FPFL]

Degrade is a needlessly judgemental word. Change does not automatically equal degrade, this is not opinion. Tone is not drinking water from a stream!

I defy anyone to tell the difference in the amp with the loop in or out once you've balanced it properly to accomodate the difference. Of course if you put some crappy thing in there it'll hurt your dynamics, but only quality things in there and you'll be absolutely fine.

These amps aren't cheap folks! You paid for that quality and its in there. The Mesas are well made and were built for real use. Don't fall prey to the Internet "never good enough" nonesense where you stop using something becuase of an irrational and abstract fear of a difference that isn't audible to 99.999% of the people listening to you play.

I'm not trying to be harsh here to jbird, please don't feel like I'm calling you out jbird I'm not.

I've been on the Net a long time and I've seen what years of overspending, underperforming people have done to what is considered normal thinking when it comes to tone and its awful. They call them 'lawyer tops' on expensive guitars for a reason! How many lawyers do you know that can but out the hot licks on a Friday night?

Enjoy your loop. The feature is sweet and the additional control is handy. I like the solo boost too.

-P

 

[inkwachemis]

FPFL

what kind of speakers are in your VHT cab?

i have a stiletto ace head too. i have a 2x12 with a v30 and a g12h30 in it. i'm not liking the speakers too much. looking for other options. I kinda want a 'darker' speaker

 

[user 1198]

All F/X Loops degrade tone to certain degrees! If you can live without the functionality, and use no effects, I'd hard bypass it for optimal tone! This of course is only my honest opinion! :idea:

I agree with jbird on this one. Although, as FPFL stated, "change" is probably a better word than "degrade" to describe the difference in tone. I did a blind test on my LSC to determine if I could tell a difference between the tone when the effects loop is hard bypassed and when it's not bypassed. Every single time, the tone that I preferred was with the effects loop hard bypassed. Don't get me wrong, the amp still sounded great with the effects loop in the circuit, but the tone seems to loose a little bit of its punch and bell like qualities with the loop engaged. It's very subtle, but there is a difference. Mesa, put the hard bypass switch there for the tone purists. If there wasn't a difference, Mesa wouldn't have bothered putting the switch there in the first place. Personally, I hard bypass the effects loop.

Here is a link related to my effects loop test: http://www.grailtone.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5082&highlight=

 

[jbird]

Degrade is a needlessly judgemental word. Change does not automatically equal degrade, this is not opinion. Tone is not drinking water from a stream!
I defy anyone to tell the difference in the amp with the loop in or out once you've balanced it properly to accomodate the difference. Of course if you put some crappy thing in there it'll hurt your dynamics, but only quality things in there and you'll be absolutely fine.
I'm not trying to be harsh here to jbird, please don't feel like I'm calling you out jbird I'm not.
Enjoy your loop. The feature is sweet and the additional control is handy. I like the solo boost too. -P

No offense taken here! But I must add: There is a noticable difference in tone/dynamics with the loop bypassed/engaged on my two channel Dual Rec! My opinion is that the tone is degraded when the loop is engaged, even while balanced, with no effects at all! I believe simply because theres more circuitry for the signal to pass through, you experience signal degradation! Just as in adding more effects, or more cable length, you lose audible clarity! I should'nt add this, but it is why I am so impressed with the tone/design of VHT's Deliverence! Simplicity = Purity!

 

[FPFL]

FPFL

what kind of speakers are in your VHT cab?

i have a stiletto ace head too. i have a 2x12 with a v30 and a g12h30 in it. i'm not liking the speakers too much. looking for other options. I kinda want a 'darker' speaker

I agree with you, I don't know what V30s are good for and don't get why so many people like them. The VHT cab has Eminence P50 speakers which are made for VHT by Eminence. You can order them directly if you want to reload your cab though personally I would get a VHT cab if you can afford it. They are well made and sound great. I don't know if they are darker, but I do prefer the EQ balance of them to V30s. They don't tire my ears the same way the v30's do with that presence spike.

As for the tone purists, yes let me be more specific. There is a hearable difference but only if you are sitting alone with your amp and listening only to it. I would say the difference is still truly small but there with the Ace. I can't comment on the recto tone changes - I know from reading this forum that recto loop's design is different than the Ace though.

Funny you should mention the Deliverance. (Anyone up for a side story?)
I had one of the very first heads, #32, and sold it which is how I ended up with the VHT cab - the cab was the better part of the two pieces.

The Dev was a great amp on paper - I too love simple and using the guitar's volume to manage tone and punch - but a loop was the only thing that could've saved that amp. The EQ was weird, even by Mesa standards. There was a fundamental grating screech that could only be dialed out by overwhelming the thing with bass or cutting the highs to useless. An EQ in the non-existent loop would've saved an otherwise unique and cool amp from the trading block. I tried a lot of other things to save it, changed pups, boost out front, etc. No use. Either screech or wub to cover it. Sigh.

It was dry, precise and good for making my playing tighter but it was the worst tracking heavy amp I ever used other than for the clean with edge sound that it excelled at. My engineer hated the sight of it and did a back flip when he saw me bringing the Ace in a few weeks later. We went from taking a 4 hours to getting an amp dialed in tolerably well to taking 30 minutes to getting the best tones ever. Understand I love VHT products, truly unique tone, and think any of the amps -with- the onboad EQ are great but the Dev was too little to work for me and ironically the guy I sold it to has already sold it too.

That said - back to the loop -

What I am forever talking about is not pristine listening situations like recording where even I would disable the loop and add delay in the mix but "out there" on stage or at practice. In that environment the difference is completely lost and the upside of having a loop with a dab of delay and a gentle noise gate to protect people's ears more than makes up for a presence that is lost to everyone after the first cymbal crash. I decide on loop or no loop by how long the gig is. Is it 30 minutes or less? Bring the minimum gear and leave the rack at home. Is it a whole set or more - lug it all! 2 guitars and the rack.

-P

 

[jbird]

^Excellent reply! And about that "side story": I hear ya on that inherent "grating screech"! Still, like you, I love the idea/layout/simplicity of it all!