Mesa or Fender for ultra cleans

[TremoJem]

I have two Tremoverbs.

I would like to add to these.

Here is what I am looking for.

I want pristine cleans. I can always kick in the BB preamp for overdrive or just use the gain channel if I get a Mesa.

So in other words is there a Mesa that has this capability...pristine cleans and a gain channel or should I get a Twin Reverb or something like that?

Please go ahead and name models you suggest and why.

I love my gain channel on the Tremoverbs, as I run the gain at half or less and it gives me a great classic rock gain with maybe a little edge, anyway, if I want to add a little more edge I just kick in the RC booster.

But, the cleans are not really that great...they are GOOD, but not great. Then again I have not had anything to compare them to other than memory.

Please let me know. Thanks

 

[tle4]

I have owned a few early 70's Super Reverb amps over the years and I think my Lonestar Classic gives any Fender a run for their money. I was actually looking for a vintage Fender forms cleans and ended up with the lonestar. The different power settings and gain on the clean channel allow you to get great clean or on the verge of breakup tones at any volume.... Then you still got a dirty channel. It is a very versatile amp. They are definitely worth trying out

 

[TremoJem]

Thanks man. That is kinda what I wanted to hear.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Roadster has great cleans. Might also cover what you like in your T-Verb and let you gig a single amp.

But... if you're looking at Ultra Cleans I'd lean towards a JC-120.

 

[TremoJem]

JC-120...Roland?

Is that not a solid state amp?

Love Roland, but I want to stay all tube.

But, yes Roland does make a killer Jazz-Chorus 120...**** those things are clean.

I just listened to Andy Timmon's demo of the Lonestar...I love it.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Are you gigging?

 

[Heritage Softail]

Are you gigging?

Fender is famous world wide for good reason. Matchless, Crema Whent, Victoria, I have a Bogner New Yorker.

Try them and buy what your ear says is best, and what feels best as you play and interact with the amp.

Don't be a fanboi. Mesa is awesome and I love mine. But other amps are great too.

I used to have a Jazz Chorus. That is an awesome amp. Many metal bands use them for spacious stereo chorus. Metallica is one of them.

Good luck on the tone quest.

 

[knotts]

The roadster does have good cleans, but my Lonestar Classic sounds great. BB preamp and AC booster sounds great with it. I would go with the LSC if you want pedal for dirt. If you want versatility, go with the roadster.

 

[SonVolt]

I love my Mark V... Love love love it. With that said, the cleans dont really compare to my Fender Princeton Reverb. You really don't know clean and the lushness of reverb until you play through a Princeton or a Deluxe.

 

[screamingdaisy]

The roadster does have good cleans, but my Lonestar Classic sounds great. BB preamp and AC booster sounds great with it. I would go with the LSC if you want pedal for dirt. If you want versatility, go with the roadster.

Honestly, pretty much all of Mesa's current lineup have great cleans. Lone Star, Recto, Mark V, Electra Dyne.... All basically different flavours of the same sound. I find the main difference is in how their power sections affect the voice, depth and headroom of the final sound.

I haven't heard all their amps, but I'd be really surprised to find out that one released within the last few years had anything but great cleans.

 

[TremoJem]

Great stuff and can't wait to try these suggestions out.

I am not gigging at this time and don't really see it happening in the near future.

I suppose the low stage volume and PA would solve my problem for cleans, but I really would rather play at a louder volume and let the amp do the work...I know it sounds stupid.

For many years, before I had Mesa gear, I played at low stage volumes, in fact all the time, as I did not know what it was like to have a pro rig. Tube amps when pushed to the sweet spot are just amazing and there is no replacement for that organic relationship the guitar has with the amp.

So I now have the opportunity to enjoy that and don't want to compromise that tone.

Thanks guys and keep it coming.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I am not gigging at this time and don't really see it happening in the near future.

If that's the case then I'd look at what the various options will provide other than cleans.

For instance, most Mesa's have a great clean channel, however the LoneStar will also give you a Mark I style lead tone whereas the Electra Dyne will give you two variations on a mid-gain grind. The Mark V will give you about a million variations on everything, but it's sound/response is a different beast than a Recto and not everyone jives with it. A Roadster or Recto (multi-watt) will give you great cleans and Recto dirt... but if you're not gigging it then you're just buying more of what you already have.

Also worth considering is whether you want open or closed back cabs or a combo.

 

[TremoJem]

My Tremoverbs are combos and I use Marshall 4x12s (should be getting a second one soon).

So I would probably get a 2x12 combo and plug it into a 4x12.

I do like the idea of sticking with Mesa...Lonestar etc., but I really have to try them out.

 

[elvis]

I played a 1965 Deluxe Reverb for 25 years. I have also gigged with a few others Fenders from that era. The cleans are amazing, and the mild breakup at high volume is killer.

For me, my Electradyne clean is better (cleaner and fatter), and if I had the chance to get my Deluxe back, I wouldn't bother. And the Vintage LO mode is the best amp tone I've ever had. If that amp had just that mode, and you had to roll back the guitar volume for clean, it would still be worth it.

I really want to try the Lonestar. People seem to like that as well

I had a JC120 for a couple of years, and it is clean, but also very very dead. No spark or sparkle at all.

 

[djw]

I really think the Lone Star has the best, most organic and versatile clean of any amp I have tried. Subjective, but here we are. I have a vintage 65 Deluxe Reverb to compare to it, and that's a great amp too. But It's not the same thing. The LSC cleans are unreal, especially when you've had time to get to know it.

However, if you aren't gigging I'd suggest taking a look at the new Express Plus amps. I'm itching to try one. I liked the previous iteration of the Express amps ok, but it sounds like they've really improved them a LOT and from what I can tell (via Mesa's video demos, fwiw) the cleans sound amazing and the dirts sound great too.

 

[TremoJem]

Unless I missed it somewhere, isn't the Lonestar in the rectifier family?

Just wondering.

 

[screamingdaisy]

The LoneStar is a Mark.

IMO it's a modernized Mark I.

 

[TremoJem]

Holy crap...I did not know.

Wow, so like the Mark it is a boutique Fender or better version of Fender...LOL.

I read somewhere that Randall started at Fender, then started modding Fenders, and then just started making Boogies which were basically better versions of Fenders.

I don't know how true any of that is...oh that's right I read it on the internet so it has to be true.

Anyway it's all good.

I have got to get to a Mesa Boogie dealer and check out the Lonestar.

Screamingdaisy...don't you have a Tremoverb?

As a Tremoverb lover and having changed (without any mods to the amps) the tone on these beasts to a very articulate, percussive, tight, musical tone, wouldn't I like the Lonestar without any worries and sort of be able to make the change without much hesitation?

I mean they are very different from one another, but the Tremoverb is very different from and other amp in Mesa's rectifier line...right.

Oh well, I just got to go out and do it. I will let you know.

 

[djw]

The LoneStar is a Mark.

IMO it's a modernized Mark I.

Yep. Not in the Rectifier lineage at all. Different beast. Very much like a Mark I.

Also, Randall Smith never worked at Fender but the first "Boogie" was a modified Princeton. So yeah, they started out pretty much Fender based... but they diverged quite a bit, and they're really their own thing. But that's why the "can sound like a Marshall" thing has generally been bogus, or at least was until Mesa started producing more British-oriented designs. They still aren't "just like a Marshall" but some Mesa's can get in the neighborhood now.

I digress. But the Lone Star is definitely like a refined Mark I. And strangely enough, you *can* sort of get it to sound a little Marshally in the lower-gain settings if you try really hard. But its strong suit is the big Fender clean, and a really rich, creamy overdrive with sustain for weeks... just a terrific soloing platform.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Holy crap...I did not know.

Wow, so like the Mark it is a boutique Fender or better version of Fender...LOL.

Most Marks have been based off a blackface style Fender preamp circuit, but Randall somehow gave them a lot more midrange so they tend to be a bit bolder and a bit stiffer than a Fender would be.

I read somewhere that Randall started at Fender, then started modding Fenders, and then just started making Boogies which were basically better versions of Fenders.

I believe that was Rivera. Randall started at an electronics repair shop and stuck a 12" speaker into a Fender Princeton as a joke.

Screamingdaisy...don't you have a Tremoverb?

No. I wanted one for a long time but I've come to like the Roadster and can't see myself going back to a 2 channel Recto.

As a Tremoverb lover and having changed (without any mods to the amps) the tone on these beasts to a very articulate, percussive, tight, musical tone, wouldn't I like the Lonestar without any worries and sort of be able to make the change without much hesitation?

Try it before you buy it. The lead channel on the Lone Star is IMO a true lead channel and not a high gain rhythm channel. It's fat, compressed, and sings with the right guitar... but don't expect it to crunch or chug. I found that I was drawn to play a lot of ZZ Top on mine. I'm sure it'd do other things, but that's the kind of sound I kept dialling in.