Mesa DC5 Head issues

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RG_FANMAN

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Hi guys! I'm new to The Boogie Board, but if anyone on here has been to other forums like UG and the Ibanez forum, you may know me from there. I hope this is the right section to be posting my issue. If not, sorry!

So here's the backstory to my problem:

About 6 months ago I bought a 1994 DC-5 head from ebay. I bought it because I had played a DC-3 through a Marshall JCM800 1960 cab and loved how it sounded, but wished it had more gain, which is something the DC-5 seemed to fulfill.

For 3 or 4 months after getting the head I was EXTREMELY happy with the sounds I was getting from it, even though I was (and still am) using two low end guitars with it: an Ibanez RG321MH and an MIK Schecter Spitfire (the equivalent of the Damien/Omen series for those that aren't familiar). When I initially got it, I was a metalhead through and through (even though I listened to a variety of stuff) and mainly played high gain, detuned metal like Killswitch Engage, As I Lay Dying, Slipknot, Children of Bodom, etc etc.

However, this past summer I got incredibly bored with modern metal, and chose to re-exam my taste in music, and thus led me to favor different music. Sadly, I realized my Mesa had WAAAY too much gain for what I was playing. Right now, I have my settings as follows;

G: 3
T: 6
M: 6
B: 6
P: 8
GEQ: Boosted V, with mids slightly scooped
Channel Volume (forget the name right now): 5
Master Volume: 1.5

Now the problems: my tones WAAAAY too high gain, waaaay too unharmonically rich, and horrendously muddy. At my current settings (the absolute max before my sound gets muddy and barely audible) it's something similar to Glassjaw or Underoath. And if that wasn't enough, I need to keep the gain on my rhythm channel under 2.5/3 in oder to keep it clean. I now run a Schecter C-1 Hellraiser (with EMG 81TW/89 pickups) as my main guitar into the DC5, then run it into a Mesa Rectifier 2x12 cab with Celestion Vintage 30s. And if it matters anything, I also plan on buying either a Fender Deluxe Roadhouse strat or a Special Edition Lite Ash Telecaster since I love single coils.

I've been jamming with two different groups, so I'll just compile the influences here: Pink Floyd, Tool, Circa Survive, Fall of Troy, The Mars Volta, Led Zepplin, Black Sabbath, U2, Deftones, Smashing Pumpkins, Minus the Bear, Explosions in the Sky, Godspeed You! Black Emperor, Brand New, At the Drive-In, Glassjaw, Underoath, Russian Circles, Wilco, Thrice, Queens of the Stone Age, Radiohead, and Jeff Buckley.

My Ideal tone: A clean channel that's bright and chimey, yet warm and articulate. Somewhere between a 60s AC30 and a Fender Twin or Vibrolux. For my lead channel, I want something that with the gain low can get something like a half dirty U2 or Minus the Bear style tone to more higher gain tones similar to the bands I listed.

Now, I know absolutely nothing about tubes aside from the differences between EL34s, 6L6s, etc, but I know the preamp tubes affect the gain. Since I'm using the tubes the previous owner had in them (which I have know idea exact models, aside from the fact they are Mesa tubes), would replacing some preamp tubes lower the gain and unmuddy my sound? Or would changing power amp tubes help this? If tubes are the issue, what are some good companies and stores/websites to purchase them from?

Otherwise, can anyone offer any other solutions to my issue?

Thank you for reading, and sorry for an exceptionally long first post! :D

- RG_ FANMAN
 
Master Volume: 1.5

that is your problem. at band volume, it's hard to get anything clean or low gain with your master that low. turn it up to 6-7 for starters and tweak your other controls from there.

your amp, if set correctly, should give you the sound you're looking for
 
I thought volume may have something to do with it. However, at 2 it's really quite loud. I have yet to try it with a band above 2, which I fear again my be too loud. So would an attenuator solve this at least for practice?

Also, why are harmonics so poor with the EMGs in my Schecter? With the Dimarzio/IBZ pickups in my Ibanez I get MASSIVE harmonics, even in my Schecter the harmonics are great, but with my EMGs they're practically non-existant.
 
will it still sound good if I lower the channel volume? sorry if that's stupid, but the DC's my first mesa and first amp that has more than a volume and tone knob (Marshall MG10CD :( )
 
acorkos said:
Master Volume: 1.5

that is your problem. at band volume, it's hard to get anything clean or low gain with your master that low. turn it up to 6-7 for starters and tweak your other controls from there.

your amp, if set correctly, should give you the sound you're looking for

+1
Also try the clean channel pushed. Use the "pull for gain" option on the clean channel gain pot.
 
If the setting you gave is for both rhythm and lead channels then you should turn the mids in the rhythm channel down. Above 3 they act as a gain control (-> manual).
 
naw, those settings were for my lead channel, since that's the one that gives me the most fits. Here are my rhythm settings:

gain: 2
treble: 3.5
Mid: 1
Bass: 1.5
Prescence: 4
Master: 8
 
I realize it's considered sissified to actually read the manual, but:
http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/Dual%20Cal%20DC-5.pdf

"Sparkling Clean":
Gain - 5
Treble - 5
Mid - 1
Bass - 4
Presence - 2
Reverb - 2
Master - 4
Output - 3
 
FWIW: I'm getting a really nice clean on the rhythm channel with Strat/LP"s/Bogner 212.

Gain 5.0
Treble 4.5
Mid 5.25
Bass 4.75
Presence 2.0
Reverb 3.0
Master 3.0
Output 3.0
 
Less gain, more harmonic richness, and chimey-er cleans from your DC5 ...use a 12AT7 and/or 5751.

Try the at7 in the PI spot and experiment with both an at7 or a 5751 in the V1. After which, (if you like the results, of course), you can then experiment with either tube also placed in the Lead channel's spot (can't recall off top of my head, but it is V4, IIRC).

FWIW, I use a NOS RCA 5751 and a NOS Mullard CV4024 (a 12at7), as well as a few TungSol RI 12ax7. But it is the "de-gaining" of the former tubes in lieu of ax7s that really gets you there. Try the at7 in the PI first as that may be enough for you. Then keep going in the order I suggested. It took me some time with a variety of tube families and tubes themselves, but I eventually arrived at this recipe. What I get is pletny of gain still left on tap for rock, but more "clear" with much better indiv note definition. And as for cleans, much more "musical" and chimey, as well as a beautiful edge-of-breakup tone. The worst that can happen is you hate it and curse me :)

Edward
 
Totally agree with what Edward has said there.

I took Edwards advice and tried out a CV4024 and it is a great tube.

I like a lot of gain so the idea of backing off a bit went against the grain but I tried it anyway just to see and wow it turned my amp into a tone monster.

The cleans are sparkling and jump right out and the lead channel is smooth and silky but still has all the gain I need.

My amp was very dark and it didnt fuss me too much a few years ago but nowadays I want a more "classic rock" sound more than Metallica type gain sound and the Mullards certainly delivered.

Thanks to Edwards advice on tubes I totally love my amp again,the cleans are breathtaking(I play country as well as rock so that gives you some idea of what cleans I am getting) and the crunch I get now as well as the lead tones are awesome.

Check out Edwards advice and I can basically promise you that you will be happy.
 
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