mesa and orange 2x12 for triaxis/simul 2:90 differences

[ecervantes]

I am about to buy a cabinet for my triaxis/simul 2:90 rack. I will get a 2x12. Is there a significant difference between the sound i will get from a mesa rectifier or an orange closed back with v30's? What would be that difference? Which cabinet do you personally prefer? And last, if I wire the cabinet so each speaker is independent to give it a stereo effect, would I blow the speakers with the 2:90? I appreciate your comments.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Mesa Mark V (on Mark IV mode) into a Mesa OEM V30
http://www.netmusicians.org/files/78-V30%20Comparison%2C%20Mesa%20V30.mp3

Mesa Mark V (on Mark IV mode) into a Celestion V30 out of an Orange 4x12
http://www.netmusicians.org/files/14-V30%20Comparison%2C%20Celestion%20V30.mp3

The clips tell you what the mic hears, but they don't tell the whole story of what I hear in the room.

In my opinion, the regular V30s featured in most cabs work better with high mid voiced amps. With low mid voiced amps I find they get muddy and loose definition.

Conversely, the modified V30s that Mesa use work better with low mid voiced amps as they maintain clarity and note separation. With high mid voiced amps they sound kind of scooped and sterile.

I have a couple of Recto cabs and a couple of Orange 4x12s. The Orange cabs sounded great when I was using an Orange amp and would probably fair well with Marshalls, but they turn into a muddy mess with Mesas. I'm in the process of reloading one with Mesa V30s and it's made it far more usable, but in hindsight it would've been cheaper to buy a Stiletto 4x12.

 

[ecervantes]

Thanks for the audio clips, I really appreciate it. I see what you mean when you talk about the differences between a Mesa v30 and a regular v30. The mesa v30 souds better to my ears. You could think that would be the obvious result if youre using a mesa amp but I also think that trying different combinations (of brands, for example) always results in something different and sometimes it results in something great. However, it is really difficult for us here in Mexico to go to a music store and try cabs or even amps so our ears judge what we hear, that's when the experience of people who have used the gear becomes so useful to get as close as possible to what we want (not to mention the money we save). Thats why I would like to ask you (and everyone in the forum) if you have had any experience with the triaxis/simul 2:90 + orange closed back or even the open back and if you would be so kind as to share your views.

 

[Jackie]

If you want to make the Orange 2x12 cab a stereo cab so you can use both sides, don't do it - the V30 is a 60W speaker and the 2:90 is 90W per side - there is a chance that you will blow the speaker.

I use a Marshall 4x12 with "regular" voiced V30s and it works just fine. :wink:
Orange makes great cabs that have a lot of punch so I don't think you can go wrong with one.

 

[elvis]

Yes, you can blow a 60W speaker with a 90W amp. Will you? Unlikely. You would have to run the 2:90 flat out, which would be awfully loud. Also, with a closed cabinet, the V30 becomes damped a bit, so less likely to throw the cone. I'm running a 2:90 into a pair of 1x12 recto cabs with V30s. I also run a Electra Dyne (90W) into a 1x12, though not at full volume.

You can also run in half power mode, though that affects tone.

Probably most important: the speakers are rated for RMS power. But guitar is very transient-heavy and not so low-frequency heavy. Even with the amp all the way up, it rarely reaches full power with a guitar signal. The only way to get max power for any length of time would be heavy distortion at full volume. So more likely with metal.

You'll cook the speakers pretty well, though.

 

[ando]

I wouldn't have seen it so much as a risk of blowing a speaker - all you have to do it be careful not to run it really loud, but if you are running such a small cab you are probably already sensitive to loudness anyway. It's basically the difference between a regular medium combo amp and a stack - you get the picture! Even running the 2 x 12 in mono you still have to be mindful of not running too loud. I can always tell just by the sound if those 30W speakers are being pushed too hard. They get a real mushy sound if they are distorting. So it's kind of self-limiting in terms of danger to the speakers - you would hear it if you were pushing them too hard. Well, I know I would hear it... I've run smaller cabs from big amps lots of time without ever blowing a speaker from it. Just gotta use common sense.

Anyway, for me, the undesirable part about it would be just how quiet the two channels of the 2:90 would be running. It would not exactly be pushing the tubes into any warmth. Having said that, few people ever push a 2:90 into any real warmth because it is so loud anyway. I'm assuming you are talking about doing this for small gigs. Obviously this isn't a metal band/stadium situation! If you are happy with the tone you are getting, there's no real problem with it being in stereo - just be careful to turn the volume up really slowly and don't let anyone else operate your gear. Also, definitely run in HALF mode.

 

[Jackie]

Vintage30 are 60W speakers. The "30" refers to the diameter in centimeters. Unless you talked about your own 30W speakers then I'm just babbling nonsense :lol:

Elvis you're right about the RMS power thing but there are still spikes - a 100W amp can put out at least 120-150 easily. But you did mention the low frequency thing. Just saying to the OP what everyone else said - be careful.

Anyway, for me, the undesirable part about it would be just how quiet the two channels of the 2:90 would be running.

Yes, that too. I really like the 2:90/TriAxis combo but with the 2:90 "Level" set to about 9 o'clock and the TA master set to about 4 then it starts happening 8)

 

[markwayne]

Just to add to the warning: a guitar amp is typically listed at whatever it can achieve and remain under 5% THD. That's usually well under half-way up. Your 90 watt amp is likely producing closer to 140 watts when at gig volume. More, if you really get the power tubes sweating.

 

[ando]

Vintage30 are 60W speakers. The "30" refers to the diameter in centimeters. Unless you talked about your own 30W speakers then I'm just babbling nonsense :lol:

That was just a typo. Not intentional. But it only strengthens my point that it's not dangerous to run 60W speakers from a 2:90. You just have to remember that when you use your Vintage 30s you are effectively playing a medium combo amp. So choose an appropriate volume level. If you never ran it at full volume you could even install a physical block so you can't turn the volume knob past, let's say, half way. Of course, by that stage you'd probably be thinking, "why don't I just buy a smaller amp?"...

 

[Jackie]

Vintage30 are 60W speakers. The "30" refers to the diameter in centimeters. Unless you talked about your own 30W speakers then I'm just babbling nonsense :lol:

That was just a typo. Not intentional. But it only strengthens my point that it's not dangerous to run 60W speakers from a 2:90. You just have to remember that when you use your Vintage 30s you are effectively playing a medium combo amp. So choose an appropriate volume level. If you never ran it at full volume you could even install a physical block so you can't turn the volume knob past, let's say, half way. Of course, by that stage you'd probably be thinking, "why don't I just buy a smaller amp?"...

You are very right. :wink: