Mark V tidbits (update)

[cho]

I had a chance to play the Mark V a little more at the MB Hollywood store last weekend. Originally (prior to NAMM show) they had a head in there, going through a 4x12 cab. Now, they have a 1x12 combo. Here's a couple things I noticed, this time around:

1. The 1x12 combo does not sound even close to the 4x12. The full, deep, punchy, dynamic cleans were much less full, deep and punchy going through the 1x12 combo. I have never really liked the C90 speaker that much...on the other hand I don't like the V30's too much either...but I must say that the 4x12 sounded sooo much better, especially for the clean sounds. Also, the fat, bassy Mark I voicing on the R2 channel did not sound as fat and bassy in the combo... All in all, I was much less impressed with the combo version, verses the head/4x12 configuration. I suppose this is to be expected, and I imagine if a better speaker were in the combo, it would sound a lot better (I really like the Weber California in my Mark III and Simul Satellite).

2. There is a weird effect with the reverb: When I switch from the R2 channel (set with low reverb) to the R1 channel (set with high reverb), there is a LONG delay before the reverb kicks in. I mean long....like 4 or 5 seconds. I asked them about this and they said this was a known issue, and would be "partially" resolved in the production units...this did not give me a warm fuzzy feeling though. In my mind, it is practically unusable in a live situation, if you depend on the reverb for the clean sound.

3. No recording output? I am wondering if this is an important oversight? Does the slave out or effects send sound good into a board? I guess this is still an unknown for me...

I guess these were about the only things I really noticed during this tryout. One general comment I would make is that, to me, the amp did not sound that much better than my Mark IV. The versatility is nice (different power settings per channel, good selection of voicings), but I found that when I dialed in my favorite sounds, they were very close to the Mark IV sounds I use....I guess I just like the way my Mark IV sounds.... I am forced to conlcude that the sound that blew me away when I first tried the Mark V was due mostly to the 4x12 cab, and not as much to the Mark V itself. Anyway, I might still order a Mark V down the road, but I am sure as heck not going to get rid of my Mark IV until I have them both for a side by side comparison.

(By they way, I did this side by side comparison recently with my Mark IV, 1978 Mark I, and 1983 Mark IIB --> IIC+. Results: Mark IV won (to my ears): most versatile, best clean sound (Mark I had flabby bass), best crunch, and lead sound that was very close to the IIC+ -- not quite as warm & creamy, but very close... So, my Mark I and IIC+ went off to ebay...)

 

[JOEY B.]

(By they way, I did this side by side comparison recently with my Mark IV, 1978 Mark I, and 1983 Mark IIB --> IIC+. Results: Mark IV won (to my ears): most versatile, best clean sound (Mark I had flabby bass), best crunch, and lead sound that was very close to the IIC+ -- not quite as warm & creamy, but very close... So, my Mark I and IIC+ went off to ebay...)

Was your IIB-->IIC+ a fully loaded Simulclass model? If so, which power transformer did it have? I'm just curious about the warm & creamy part. :wink:

 

[MetalMatt]

... 2. There is a weird effect with the reverb: When I switch from the R2 channel (set with low reverb) to the R1 channel (set with high reverb), there is a LONG delay before the reverb kicks in. I mean long....like 4 or 5 seconds. I asked them about this and they said this was a known issue, and would be "partially" resolved in the production units...this did not give me a warm fuzzy feeling though. In my mind, it is practically unusable in a live situation, if you depend on the reverb for the clean sound.

My Road King II has this same "feature".

 

[cho]

Was your IIB-->IIC+ a fully loaded Simulclass model? If so, which power transformer did it have? I'm just curious about the warm & creamy part. :wink:

It was a Simulclass w/ X101 transformer. It was warm and creamy compared to the Mark IV, which I thought had slightly more harshness in the treble.

 

[cho]

My Road King II has this same "feature".

Does anyone know why this "feature" is there?

 

[phyrexia]

well. what happens when you go from a distorted, wet (in terms of reverb) sound to a clean wet sound with one reverb tank is that you get bleed-through of the distorted signal into the clean reverb. This sounds nasty. Take from that what you will.

an amp with digital reverb wouldn't have this problem. But it would have digital circuitry.

 

[phyrexia]

and also, what kind of IV do you have? is it a head?

Obviously a 1x12 combo is going to sound lots different than a closed back 4x12 and a head. Expecting the same whallop from a combo (especially one with a Celestion and not, say, a 12L) is silly. They are for different things. I bet that if you spent more time with the clean channel you'd like the combo more. (C90s take forever to break in, too.)

 

[cho]

and also, what kind of IV do you have? is it a head?

Obviously a 1x12 combo is going to sound lots different than a closed back 4x12 and a head. Expecting the same whallop from a combo (especially one with a Celestion and not, say, a 12L) is silly. They are for different things. I bet that if you spent more time with the clean channel you'd like the combo more. (C90s take forever to break in, too.)

Yes, my Mark IV is a head, but I have also owned a Mark IV combo w/ EV.

Your point about the speaker break in is a good one! This Mark V combo was fresh out of the factory, whereas the head I played was put on a 4x12 cab that had been in the shop for a while, and had probably been broken in.

 

[phyrexia]

Well even the compact and widebody cabs sound a lot different IMO.

I didn't believe in speaker break-in until I worked at the guitar store and took stuff out of boxes and then heard it six months later, for instance. I did not like the express 5:25 at all until the little 10" guy in there loosened up. The 4x12s sound different after they take a pounding for a while too.

 

[rispsira]

Hey phyrexia,
Its interesting what you said about speakers breaking in; i always hear that but never had the possibility to compare two same old/new cabs. Could you elaborate on what kind of difference you felt in the sound?

Also i just received a new 4X12 stilleto (traditionnal) cab that i compared to my old recto 4X12 (standard). I much preffered the stilleto. How do you think that might change when the speakers of the latter break in?

 

[MetalMatt]

Yes, the long fade in that sounds like a train of reverb coming your way. Not so nice, but I learned to deal with it. When switching channels on my Quad pre and/or DC-5, I don't notice any bleed through. They don't have this same... "feature".

I'm not big on the hows and whys of tube amps, but It seems to me why couldn't there be two reverb tanks that play a "leap frog" effect? So one tank isn't always on and we don't get the bleed through on the channels? Maybe I'm missing something :?

 

[theroan]

Thanks for this. I'm definitely going to check that reverb thing out when I try one. It should have been expected that the 4x12 would have sounded better. More speakers means more depths. The Mesa 4x12's that are closed back use Vintage 30's, the combos are open back with C90's. There are a lot of variables. I also hear you when it comes to it sounding like the Mark IV, to me the features and the increased versatility is worth it as long as the amp works.

 

[Satch12879]

My DC-5 has it's own issues with switching and reverb; the switching "wash" is pretty heinous particularly when you go from the lead to rhythm channels. It is the 3rd and final version of the amp, though.

I agree with your assessment based on my Mark IIC+s. I have a 1x12 open back which although is loaded with an EVM, sounds less than stellar when compared to my 4x12. Obviously, the physics of the two situations are vastly different. But ultimately, I just don't like the Mark series with anything else but a closed-back cabinet.

 

[Gizzorge]

Hello Guys..

So I ordered a MKV Combo today at the Hollywood Store. Said first run should be finished by the end of the month, and I should have it a week or so after that... I was told I got the last one they had pegged for the Hollywood store!!!! Salesperson said the next run should be completed by the end of May....

Will post as soon as I get the word from the store..... (as the rest of you who ordered one will as well!!!)

 

[phyrexia]

I listened to the Premiere Guitar Mark V video again and you can hear the reverb kicking in. It feels about the same as a LoneStar or Road King to me. Not terribly worried.