Lonestar Special question: Clean headroom

[GeoBull]

I have an LSC and an LSS. I love the LSS for what I've used it for. When I need clean headroom I just A/B switch to the LSC. For some small gigs, jams, rehearsals, I've been taken only the LSS: in most situations this has been GREAT. E.g. last night I sat in with a group; used the LSS and for what we did (classic rock, blues) it was wonderful; incredibly responsive, like having a snarling fireball behind me; didn't need ch 2. Had Ch 1 at Gain 12, Master 3 or 4, Treble 1, Mid 10, Bass 10 (all approximate) and the sound was great.

That said I HAVE noticed that there is simply very little clean headroom. Even with Gain at 11 and power at 30w things start to fur up (in a great way mind you). I've noticed that I get a tad less gain but more clean with Hard Bypass on; more fur and gain with Loop In (the loop knob on back is at 12.

A few other things:

-I use a Parker Fly Mojo: Seymour Duncan Jazz (neck) and JB (bridge)
-I run the guitar close to full or full most of the time
-I'm using an Evidence Audio Lyric HG cable (probably sends a lot of signal through)

I perfectly willing to accept that this amp breaks up early (especially running the tone knobs past 12) but want to make sure to check with this great forum if maybe:

-Something is wrong with the amp (it's about 1 1/2 months old)
-The pickups I'm using are hot enough that I should be running the guitar volume lower more regularly
-I'm missing something in the settings, loop, etc. that would give me more clean

Any thoughts would be much appreicated as usual.

 

[RoadKinger483]

I use to have the same problem. I use to have a VOX AC30 that had terrible clean headroom. I tried everything; new tubes (power and preamp), different wattage speakers, cables....... nothing worked. Finally I changed the pickups in my guitar. I use to have the same configuratin; JB in the bridge position and jazz in the neck. I kept the jazz in the neck but switched to a SH-1 59 for the bridge and UREKA!!!!!! CLEAN HEADROOM!!!!!! Apparently the pickup was too hot and pushing the preamp of the amp to hard. I thought i was gonna miss the sound of pushing the distortion buy the JB but the 59 was actually a nice change. It has way more chacter. I too have a LSS and the headroom is AWESOME!!!! I LOVE THE AMP!!!!

 

[GeoBull]

I kept the jazz in the neck but switched to a SH-1 59 for the bridge and UREKA!!!!!! CLEAN HEADROOM!!!!!! Apparently the pickup was too hot and pushing the preamp of the amp to hard. I thought i was gonna miss the sound of pushing the distortion buy the JB but the 59 was actually a nice change. It has way more chacter. I too have a LSS and the headroom is AWESOME!!!! I LOVE THE AMP!!!!

RoadKinger this is really helpful; a few follow-up questions:

-Did you ever work more with the volume knob to contain the pickup for clean playing and then crank for soloing?
-The sound of the LSS driven by the bridge pickup is definitely great; do you really not miss that fur? What are the key differences with the SH-59?
-I also get a far amount of fur with the bridge pickup; were you experiencing this with your Jazz pickup?
-What guitar are you using?

Thanks again

 

[Leroy the Massochist]

That's interesting RoadKinger.

When you say heaps of headroom are you talking in a live situation as I am in the same position as Geobull, with the same pickups. When I switch from channel 2 - classic rock to channel 1 my clean is fantastic for ACDC rythm sound. It is not even close to clean.

All those things that sound great in the bedroom, fat bottom end, sparkly high end don't count for much in a live situation as they are lost amongst the bass and the drums.

 

[GeoBull]

When you say heaps of headroom are you talking in a live situation as I am in the same position as Geobull, with the same pickups. When I switch from channel 2 - classic rock to channel 1 my clean is fantastic for ACDC rythm sound. It is not even close to clean.

This is my situation; the ch 1 sound is GREAT but not clean at all at any loud volumes. At lower volumes (e.g. smaller band setting, etc.) it sounds great and reasonably clean but with bite if you request it :wink:

All those things that sound great in the bedroom, fat bottom end, sparkly high end don't count for much in a live situation as they are lost amongst the bass and the drums.

I'm not having this problem. I sat in with a band last night. Guitar player was using a Mike Lull Tele (http://www.mikelull.com) and a Fender (something); looked like a 1x12. The guy was getting a really nice sound; fairly clean and then a pedal for distortion (not so great). Before I went up I was wondering how my sound would stack up. The LSS was killer. This was a loud club situation with no instruments miked except percussion (not kit). The sound was big and fat and, yes, furry, but I was very happy with it. Dial back the volume and it cleans up (although not totally), dial back up and the solo sound was awesome without touching ch 2.

 

[MONGO]

I know this is not the answer to all but the way around that is keep the gain low the watts at 30 and the master no where past 12.00....


oh and I use two of them and its not loud and I have the headroom you want. Its the way to go. The speakers are great in the amp so thats not the problem.

Two LSS does it. Its the way to go for headroom.

 

[lyman]

roadkinger's pickup comments are a good point. if you introduce lots of gain early on it's going to hit everything harder. trying a lower gain tube in the first tube position in your preamp will help as well. i've got a 35 watt mesa maverick so i know what you mean, not much clean headroom there too (the lonestars came out right after that amp was discontinued).

as for speakers, sure some are more responsive. but i don't know what are in the lonestars though so there might not even be much room for improvement. a side note about speaker sensitivity: the dB rating is useful for comparing speakers within a manufacturer, but not between manufacturers. different companies don't follow a standard way of rating speaker sensitivity so comparing a celestion to a an eminence for that rating isn't reliable.

 

[GeoBull]

...I am in the same position as Geobull, with the same pickups.

I just discussed this with Mike Lull in email. Here's what he said:

"Yes the JB is a high output (hot) pickup. The 59 is a lower output PAF style pickup. It will give you a nicer sounding clean sound and will also sound great distorted."

That makes sense to me; so my options are: work with the volume knob more or try the 59. An interesting choice: does anybody have any experience with an SD 59 pickup through LSS?

That said, I know that with EL84's I will not get the clean of the LSC; and no problem, the furry sound rips.

 

[ricardo loma vista]

I've been using the LSS almost exclusively for gigs for 2 1/2 years, and it's got plenty of juice for a live situation. It will produce a pretty good clean tone, but this is not an amp that will ever get a twin reverb type clean. I also have a Blues Deluxe, which gives a typical Fender clean, and I dialed in my LSS clean using the Fender for comparison.

The LSS is very sensitive to input signal. It has so much gain, that the preamp tubes overload on the smallest signals--it sounds great BTW, but is not sparkling clean. You can clean it up pretty well though by reducing your guitar's volume to as low as 4 or 5 (on the guitar). (If I use the Fender amp by comparison, I have the guitar volume at 7-8 for the same tone-the Fender preamp doesn't overload as easily)

Keep the LSS CH1 gain around 10:30 and set your overall vol with the master and output. The channel master and output master should be around the same position (I'm usually between 11:00--12:00).

Set the LSS CH1 to the 30 W position, and plug the speaker into the optional speaker jack on the back panel. This gives you 35 W. Even better, if you plug into an extension speaker, the amp sounds even more cleaner and fuller.

You'll probably have to tweak these settings to get the best clean, because your guitar volume will vary depending on pickups.

hope this helps

 

[GeoBull]

Thanks, Ricardo: these are good tips. I agree that the LSS simply won't do loud, crystal clean; in some ways that's the beauty of it for me. At lower volume applications it sounds fantastic, clean, responsive. At louder settings, and with a hot pickup like I have, and the guitar cranked, the sound is snarling bliss.

I need to play around with my gtr vol knob more as you suggest; I've never done that much of that but I think with the sensitivity of the LSS preamp, the hot cable (Evidence Audio) and the hot pickups on the new Fly Mojo I need to look into that.

And, if I want serious loud clean I can just switch over to the LSC.

 

[RoadKinger483]

GeoBull, I've only had my Lone Star Special for about a week but, I can i've owned simlar amps (Badcat Blackcat, Vox AC30, Orange AD30) and I can honestly say that the LSS is the best sounding one. I'm using a PRS Custom 22 with a SH-2n in the neck position and a SH-1 59 in the bridge position. I honestly get REALLY LOUD VOLUME with plenty of headroom. The cleans on the amp are AMAZING and is the main reson why I got rid of my sreies 1 Roadking. Check your effects send level in the rear of the amp. Make sure its at 12 o'clock or higher. I run my gain on channel 1 at around 11 o'clock with the master at around 12 o'clock. Then raise the overall master accordingly. Try hooking up the speakers to the optional jack in the rear to run the amp in 35 watts. The manual says this option is the best for a clean tone.

 

[RoadKinger483]

as far as the tone comparison on the JB and the 59. The 59 has less mids and a fuller bass response. The mids from the JB were a big part of what was overdriving my past amps. The highs on the 59 are not brittle at all but really rounded out in the perfect way to compliment the bass and mids.

 

[GeoBull]

Thanks, this is helpful. Sounds like you are definitely happy with the swap out, correct? Also, did you consider anything else for the bridge?

 

[Travis]

I prefer the hotter (not as hot as JB) pickups in my Ibanez JS than my SG which has 57s or i use my Strat. Be carefull not to get pickups that are too dark sounding which will further deplete your headroom.

The Ibanez has DiMarzio PAF Pro neck pu and DiMarzio Fred bridge pu and sounds great.

To be honest i have not reached the headroom limit of LSS.

 

[Juancito12]

If you want to increase headroom, the most effective way (but definately not cheapest) is a larger output transformer. The Mesa LSS, LSC, and Rectos don't use poor quality transformers but they are also not the largest and best built on the market. In a mass produced amp, manufacturers need to cut costs somewhere and the OT is a common area (extreme example are Silvertone Amps in the 1960s). You could try calling Mercury Magnetics and see if they have something that's EL84 compatible and would increase headroom. Another option is to check out the guys at Voodoo Amps. They have a deluxe mod with a custom OT that will definately improve the headroom of a LSS in addition to some other improvements: http://www.voodooamps.com/standardmods.html