LDR ?
- Thread starter jamme61
- Start date
Help Support The Boogie Board:
stephen sawall
Well-known member
Did you know it did not work when you bought it ?
No Idea it was not working. The seller told me, he played it before shipping it, and it was fine. The amp is in mint condition, inside and out but, stil DOA. I wanted more money off but, the seller would only give $100 off or I could ship back to him. It looks great and I'm hopeing to break even.
94Tremoverb
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2009
- Messages
- 1,340
- Reaction score
- 1
If it was working before shipping and now isn't, it's almost certain to be simple shipping damage involving a broken tube, wire or other connection. Check the preamp tubes before you do anything, and test it in solid-state diode rectifier mode.
If it's absolutely dead on both channels and in all modes it's unlikely to be an LDR problem - they switch between the various gain levels and pre-EQ settings, and it would take more than one to go out at the same time in the Orange and Red channels - and in specific locations - to give no sound at all.
They certainly can and do fail - I got my '94 Tremoverb cheap because two had gone, one for the Red channel reverb and one for the Red to Vintage cloning circuit - but it's not *that* common, mine is the only one I've had to work on so far for this fault (and also the oldest I've seen). There are indeed 25 of them in there, and there is some logic to the idea that if one goes you should change the lot, but to be honest the failure rate is pretty low, and I didn't bother, I just changed the two dead ones. I don't know whether this is the reason the model was discontinued or possibly only a minor factor - I spoke to Mr. Smith personally some years ago and he said it was simply because it was too expensive to make and not selling well enough, which sounds believable. It did disappear at the same time as the Dual Rectifiers went to the 3-channel version, so it may be just coincidence... but it's certainly true that the 3-channels and all recent Mesas use mostly relays instead.
But the amp sounds so great that it's easily worth the risk with the LDRs, to me. The problem is no worse than electrolytic caps degrading and failing over time, as they do in all amps - and in fact, not even that serious because a failed cap can leave the amp totally non-operable or even do other damage when it goes, which the LDRs don't.
If it's absolutely dead on both channels and in all modes it's unlikely to be an LDR problem - they switch between the various gain levels and pre-EQ settings, and it would take more than one to go out at the same time in the Orange and Red channels - and in specific locations - to give no sound at all.
They certainly can and do fail - I got my '94 Tremoverb cheap because two had gone, one for the Red channel reverb and one for the Red to Vintage cloning circuit - but it's not *that* common, mine is the only one I've had to work on so far for this fault (and also the oldest I've seen). There are indeed 25 of them in there, and there is some logic to the idea that if one goes you should change the lot, but to be honest the failure rate is pretty low, and I didn't bother, I just changed the two dead ones. I don't know whether this is the reason the model was discontinued or possibly only a minor factor - I spoke to Mr. Smith personally some years ago and he said it was simply because it was too expensive to make and not selling well enough, which sounds believable. It did disappear at the same time as the Dual Rectifiers went to the 3-channel version, so it may be just coincidence... but it's certainly true that the 3-channels and all recent Mesas use mostly relays instead.
But the amp sounds so great that it's easily worth the risk with the LDRs, to me. The problem is no worse than electrolytic caps degrading and failing over time, as they do in all amps - and in fact, not even that serious because a failed cap can leave the amp totally non-operable or even do other damage when it goes, which the LDRs don't.
Thanks for all the info. I should have added that the red channel works and the clean/orange channel will sometimes start to fade in, then work, then cut out. I did change all preamp tubes and messed with the effex loop, tbue rec, solid state, but, nothing worked. I had a TOV for a short time, years ago but, I had to return it, couldn't afford it. I always remembered it, and finaly got one. I know my tech (Dave Sound) for years, and know he won't rip me off, so I should be OK(fingers crossed)
stephen sawall
Well-known member
I hope things work out for you. Let us know how things turned out. I have had my Tremoverb over 15 years with no LDR problems. The only thing I have needed to do is replace tubes as they wear out.
All the older Mesa's use LDR's. Up to about the time the Dual Calibers and three channel recto's were released. The biggest problem with LDR's compaired to the relay's mesa now favors is that it takes four LDR's to replicate the abilities of one relay. So you have four times the number of parts that can go bad. Taking that into account though, look at how many early mesa's are still being used. Once the amp gets checked out and the bad components replaced I would think you should be good.
shogun said:
LOL, I'm hopeing the $100 will cover it. The amp is mint inside and out, it's a newer 1999 model. I know I'm taking a chance. I do know my tech very well so, I feel I'll be alright. Should have the amp back in about two weeks (sucks)
thinskin57
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2008
- Messages
- 407
- Reaction score
- 0
we must be in the wrong business! i just dropped an acoustic guitar off for repair. 2-3 weeks! the hell w/trying to be the next prs or fender... repairs/restoration is where the (local) money is! my guys make a really good living at this, save for not having health insurance. (for now...) good for them! ...as long as they do good work.
stephen sawall
Well-known member
That's killer :mrgreen:
thinskin57
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2008
- Messages
- 407
- Reaction score
- 0
more like, "it's not unlikely for an LDR (or any other component) to fail in an amp that's 11 years old". :wink:
94Tremoverb
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2009
- Messages
- 1,340
- Reaction score
- 1
I would say it's not even as bad as that. More like: it's unlikely for any component to fail in as well-built an amp as a Mesa when it's only 11 years old. In this run of Tremoverbs there is an increased risk of a particular failure which is still not very common, but in a part which this amp has an unusually large number of, and which can fail in other amps anyway. To be accurate, the MkIV and the 2-channel Rectifiers don't have many less. (21 and 20 respectively I think.)
Most good quality amps will work perfectly for twenty or thirty years before anything needs routine maintenance - usually electrolytic caps replacing - but LDRs are in the 'next most likely' group of components to fail, along with all solid state components (diodes, transistors and ICs) and relays. Others - jacks, pots and switches - will wear out with use, rather than age. The only components that don't usually fail at all, or not in an age- or use-related manner, are resistors, non-electrolytic caps and transformers. In vintage amps the resistors and caps degrade over time too, although modern types are not prone to this.
Amps - even solid state ones - need long-term maintenance, period. If you're lucky you might get forty years without so much as having to open it up, if you're unlucky you might get a component failure within a few years - it's just chance and there are a lot of components in a fairly complex amp like a channel-switching Mesa. A lot of people seem to be scared to own vintage amps because things may fail, but they're almost always easy to fix and once done the amp is as reliable as any brand new one. The Tremoverb is just becoming a vintage amp, that's all.
Most good quality amps will work perfectly for twenty or thirty years before anything needs routine maintenance - usually electrolytic caps replacing - but LDRs are in the 'next most likely' group of components to fail, along with all solid state components (diodes, transistors and ICs) and relays. Others - jacks, pots and switches - will wear out with use, rather than age. The only components that don't usually fail at all, or not in an age- or use-related manner, are resistors, non-electrolytic caps and transformers. In vintage amps the resistors and caps degrade over time too, although modern types are not prone to this.
Amps - even solid state ones - need long-term maintenance, period. If you're lucky you might get forty years without so much as having to open it up, if you're unlucky you might get a component failure within a few years - it's just chance and there are a lot of components in a fairly complex amp like a channel-switching Mesa. A lot of people seem to be scared to own vintage amps because things may fail, but they're almost always easy to fix and once done the amp is as reliable as any brand new one. The Tremoverb is just becoming a vintage amp, that's all.
mikey383
Well-known member
94Tremoverb said:
Excellent post! 8)
I've owned three 2 channel Dual Recs (oldest one being the '95 I have currently), a 3 channel Triple Rec, and a Mesa 50/50 - the only problems I've had from any of them (not tube related) were a finicky standby switch on the newest 2 channel, and a burnt screen resistor on my '95 (due to former user error). Overall, Mesas are built like tanks and I'm sure if you look at their failure rate, the amps that are still working amps flawlessly after 20-30 years will greatly overshadow the ones that had problems. Their customer service is top notch also!
GD_NC
Well-known member
I wouldn't loose any sleep over LDRs. They are $7-9 each and require very little labor to replace. Just get your amp checked out every 5 years or so. Caps, Resistors, LDRs, Pots, Switches all have a limited life span and will need to be replaced occasionally. If you are going to own a good tube amp it's just part of life.
94Tremoverb
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2009
- Messages
- 1,340
- Reaction score
- 1
Exactly. Vintage tube amps are maintainable essentially forever, assuming tubes and single discrete components don't disappear entirely - a modern channel-switcher like a Mesa only a little less so, and the bits that will become difficult to replace are all in the switching control, not in the tube section.
Unlike owning a digital modeling amp, where unless something really simple like the jack breaks, you can basically forget repairing it. Many of the important and most failure-prone parts are highly specialised ICs which won't be around forever, many other parts are PCB-surface mounted - which while not impossible to change is not a job for the average tech with standard soldering equipment, and they fall in value so fast that the option of replacing the entire board - often the easiest or only sensible method of repairing them - is uneconomical, even if the manufacturer carries them beyond the end of the production run. So you're left with a speaker - often the only part worth anything - and a shell with a power transformer and a few basic components from the power section if you're lucky, that's too awkward even to use for a build project because the chassis is highly dedicated to the original components and it's not practical to mount other stuff in there. Even the common power ICs used in most of these and a lot of other modern solid-state amps will be a problem in the longer term, as types become obsolete and are replaced. Old-school discrete-component solid-state is better.
Unlike owning a digital modeling amp, where unless something really simple like the jack breaks, you can basically forget repairing it. Many of the important and most failure-prone parts are highly specialised ICs which won't be around forever, many other parts are PCB-surface mounted - which while not impossible to change is not a job for the average tech with standard soldering equipment, and they fall in value so fast that the option of replacing the entire board - often the easiest or only sensible method of repairing them - is uneconomical, even if the manufacturer carries them beyond the end of the production run. So you're left with a speaker - often the only part worth anything - and a shell with a power transformer and a few basic components from the power section if you're lucky, that's too awkward even to use for a build project because the chassis is highly dedicated to the original components and it's not practical to mount other stuff in there. Even the common power ICs used in most of these and a lot of other modern solid-state amps will be a problem in the longer term, as types become obsolete and are replaced. Old-school discrete-component solid-state is better.
shogun said:
I am not sure if it was SOLD as IS-No returns, but it sure sounded like it. Ebay will
always side with the seller if it is Sold as is, that is a sad but true reality. Think what
sold as is means.
Example,
Amp for sale, just tried it works perfectly.
No returns-Sold as is.
Your complaint is it was not working when I got it. Yet even he indicated channel four worked and three sort of worked.
That is not DOA. Works perfectly is also subjective, your amp might work perfectly but I might not like it. It is sad what
ebay has turned into. Yet if a seller offers you a chance to send it back, half the time it is cheaper to get it repaired than
to send it back. Take the discount, pay less to get it fixed and you have a working item.
I am not by any means sticking up for the sellers that exploit buyers. Yet I had an amp that did not work when I
received it and Pay Pal protection is not much protection at all. I reported it after trying to work it out. He stated
it was used and sold as is. He won, I lost. What are you going to do. Thankfully I repaired it for less than forty bucks
and sold it for almost twice what I paid, in my posting was Works perfectly, 24 hour return policy you pay shipping.
I am about done selling on ebay. Done buying also. With over 200 transactions and 100% feedback, it is only a matter of
time with the new rules that I will have more and more bad experiences.
Yea, I bought my tremoverb at a local used music store, and it sounded kind of weak at the store, but I wanted one and figured I would have more time to tweak it once I got it home. After a month of it sounding week on the red channel, I finally took it apart to see what was going on with the switching. Turns out I had one LDR that wasn't switching. Otherwise the amp worked great. I replaced the LDR and now the amp is a champ. It's just too heavy. I mean the weight. Although it's pretty heavy in tone also.
