Just got new Mesa 50/50 power amp - tone worries!

[Rob227]

Well I thought I had researched this enough and I had a sure thing but I'm kind of worried that I've made a terrible blunder. I sold my peavey 50/50 with el84 groove tubes and replaced it with a Mesa 50/50 with mesa 6L6's in the hope of a tone upgrade. I wasn't able to find one and hear it or especially do a side by side comparison before buying and also to make it worse I sold my old amp before getting the replacement.

Overall on the clean tone the Mesa is a great improvement, it's just what I want for clean and I don't need to mess with different preamp tubes to try and get it cleaner. It sounds awesome for clean.

Now I know what the term spongy means, it seems like no matter what I do there is a certain characteristic to the distortion that seems to lack compared to the el84 tone.

I have only had a chance to play with this for a few hours so forgive me for jumping the gun here but would anyone like to give me some tone opinions? It seemed like I had the distorted tone off master of puppets a lot closer with the el84's. I can nail the clean now but were James and Kirk using el34's or 6L6's?

 

[zodiac272]

Depending on what amp they were using, but mostly 6L6's i'm sure. their Mk IIC+'s had6L6's unless they had Simul-class and ran el34's in the outer pairs.

what preamp are you using? what about your cab setup? you should be fine with the mesa 50/50. maybe try an ADA mp1 or a studio preamp to go along with it, and you might not be so worried about your tone.

scott

 

[Rob227]

Hey Scott thanks for the reply,

I'm running a mesa quad preamp and a mesa recto cab with V30's so I think I should have the gear to get the tone I want. I'm just not used to the 6L6's and maybe I just need more time to fine tune the sound. It's wierd though because I felt that the tone I was getting with the el84's was uncanny how identical it was with some 80's metal I was playing.

Is it too much to expect everything from one type of tube?

 

[Roadifier]

Metallica Slaved their boogies out to marshall JCM 800's, then later on used mesa strategy 400 poweramps with studio preamps.

 

[zodiac272]

Hey Rob,

you should be able to get some great tones from your quad. I used it with my 2:90 and was awesome. I wanted to simplify so I sold the quad and got a IIC head. Don't forget about the preamp tubes in the quad... they have a lot to do with your tone too. Are you using the oversized recto cab or the traditional, smaller recto? Maybe see if you can find an older 4x12 boogie halfback cab (metal grille), and give it a test. or maybe it's the Vintage 30's, or guitar/pickup combo. You seem to really dig hetfield tone...what guitar you use? have you tried an explorer with emg's? or tried layering the two channels of quad together?

scott

 

[Rob227]

Hmm so it seems I'm up against a mix of mostly 6l6's and possibly some el34's in the strategy amps and el34's in the Jcm800's.

Currently my quad has all mesa tubes in it. I have an oversize recto cab. I have two Ibanez guitars one with Shecter pickups I put in and the other has dimarzio's. It sounds like the Shecter's have a bit higher output.

I'm not stuck on a Hetfield tone, I just want a variety of 80's metal tones out of my rig. I'm getting a little closer to what I want for sound. I have the presence cranked on the power amp and I've lowered the bass on the preamp and it's getting closer. There still is that different characteristic to the distortion though.

I haven't tried layering the channels together, I don't think I have the equipment to do that. It did sound cool one time when the unit malfunctioned and one of the lead channels got stuck on at the same time as the clean and they blended together. Either way I think I'm stuck with this gear for a while so I'm just going to enjoy it and keep tweaking the controls.

 

[zodiac272]

Have you seen any settings for your quad?

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=36377

http://homepage.mac.com/mesaboogie/settings.html

maybe lower the to 2 or 3, try the 4 ohm output to plug your 4x12

you are "stuck" with some great gear... you will get some great tone. the quad, you can layer 2 channels together... ld1 ld2 or rhy1 ld 2 for example. I think all you need is to patch the two leads together on the rear of the quad. keep tweaking, you'll find it

scott

 

[Rob227]

I found some settings here that I was using as a starting point.

http://www.chain-metal.nl/mark3/metallica.html


I've done some experimenting with the ones you posted as well and I'm getting the tone dialed in more. 8) My new G major 2 should be showing up soon so that should be the icing on the cake.

I'll have to assume you're pointing to the bass knob when suggesting I use it on 2-3. That seems to be my spot between those two.
I've got the cab running stereo into the 4ohm inputs.

Blending the two channels is an interesting option. I'd like to be able to have something like that set up that I could turn on and off. I wonder if I could make it sound like a harmony of two guitar players. This was supposed to be my set up to end all setups but as usual now I'm desiring more, a mixture of el84, el34 and 6l6 power amps but I must resist. For now at least lol.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[snave]

If you're craving the tonal variety of 6L6s and EL34s, then a KT88 power amp may be the thing for you. They can get incredibly fat sounding yet remain tight in response.

Something else to consider, if you're shooting for that MOP tone, is to run the signal from your Quad to the power amp using the effects loop "send" instead. I've read that, according to Mike B., this closer mimics the circuitry of the IIC+ head (in the studio preamp at least, I'd assume it's the same for a quad) since it's bypassing some unnecessary circuitry.

 

[Rob227]

I had a look at some KT88 tubes and you could almost buy an amp for the price of the tubes alone. I did see a demo on utube with KT88's on one of those chinese made soldano's and it sounded pretty good.

I'm sticking with the Mesa for now, maybe I'll try a 2 50 with the switchable tube option in the future. I have to admit I'm loving the clean tone out of the 6l6's. I wish Mesa had a lower watt power amp that had mixable, switchable channels with different tubes similarly like a randall rt2 50 but with Mesa quality parts. May as well make it class A so no biasing is needed to top it off. I see some of the higher watt amps have a mixture of tubes but it's just such power overkill for what I'm doing when I don't come near to using the full range of volume available with the 50 50.

Interesting idea about using the effects send from the amp. Unfortunately I've set up my rig to run stereo so I need both the outputs. I wonder if it would be a subtle difference anyway.

 

[rjriley1]

Rob, I've have a Mesa oldschool 50/50 for over 17 years. I actually have 2 now. The 50/50 is the best bang for the buck. I use to run them with older Digitech pre amp processors in the day. Everyone always complimented me about my sound even back then. I mate them with a Triaxis (I have a 2:90 also and like the 50/50 sound better) or my Studio and sometimes dig out one of my old Digitech pre amp processors. You can run hot on your output pre amp signals and still get a clean tone. Run your pre amp output wide open or nearly wide open. Also if you don't have active EMG's (ex. 81/85/87) get some. These sound bright when clean and overdrive some of the nastiest of tones. I never used more than 1 1/2 to 3 on my stage volume miked. Usually practice around 1 ish or a hair more. I'm really starting to lean toward the sound of the older Mesa (mid-late80's ish). The newer amps are built more commericially and not plain simple iron cade like 20 or so years ago. Each one has a distict sound in a certain way. You might be really use to hearing your old sound and just haven't warmed up to the Mesa's sound yet. Good luck.

 

[Rob227]

Hey thanks for the insight. I am getting used to the Mesa 50 50 and I'm liking the tone now that I have it dialed in more. I settled on a -/ shape on the eq with the 240hz lowest out of all the sliders which seems to sound best to my ears. Since I've had a little time to play with it I've noticed how good it sounds without any additional effects since I'm in between any other gear to use it with. The palm muting and heavy riffs sound great through the 50 50.

The main difference in the distortion characteristic I wasn't sure how to describe before was described in another post comparing preamp tubes I read where the writer called the tone "big rocks" which is how I would compare the 6l6 vs el84 tone. Big rocks vs small rocks in the tightness of the distortion. I'm happy with the tone now but I'm sure I could get it a bit closer to small rocks again with some different preamp tubes.

I'll have to try running the preamp at a higher output and see the difference. I hope I get a chance to try some active emg's as well.