I'm Done with JJ's and need some more advice

[Dead Moon Rising]

I guess i was too happy with having a new 3ch dual and fresh (JJ's) tubes, but the more i tried to dial in a sound i liked the more i hated my tone. now i put some old mesa tubes i had back in with the original 6l6's and my head sounds great. the JJ's were too harsh, the high's sounded harsh and the lows were muddy. funny because they're supposed to be hand picked to make my amp sound great, but really in the end i hated the sound i had. my singer/bassist was even complaining to me about it.

i need some help here though:

2 of the tubes were Mesa's and were labeled Chinese1 and Chinese2, is that for V1 and V2?

And:

i have a couple of tubes i bought from a guy at my local musicians flea market, a GE 12AX7/ECC83. it has CB 188-5 written on the side, and an Ei ECC83 from yugoslavia. are either of them worth putting in my rec and what slot's would be good?

Thanks

 

[fishyfishfish]

YeP I hear you on the JJ's for the pre-amp section. I will give them props for taming the highend off an amp that is crazy bright, and the life span is pretty good compared to most. As far as the position of the Chinese 12ax7, try V3-V5, and I would try the NOS in V1 and V2. I too have taken the NOS plunge and right now I have a RCA Grey Plate in V1 and a Westinghouse in V2. A little more 3-D sounding, nice mids and softened up the high end on channel 3. You might have to turn the presence down or off until the little guys break in (about a week) and it doesn't make the amp (Recto) into a vintage or boutique beauty, but there is a difference in a good way. Enjoy!

 

[Dead Moon Rising]

Try the GE in v1 let us know what you hear.

I'll give that one a shot.

 

[Jak0lantern01]

JJ preamp tubes are a nightmare in the Recto. I had the same experience that you described. Try ordering a set from Doug's Tubes, they really warmed up the sound of my Recto. I'm getting ready to order a set for my Stiletto Deuce to see what happens.

 

[212Mavguy]

Shredd! you're baaaaaack!

Another vote for GE longplate in V1 here. Another one to try would be vintage old stock Raytheon long blackplate 12ax7a for that position. See lots of them with Baldwin labels, organ tubes were selected out of larger lots. That tube has a partial 3rd mica to help in controlling microphonics, normally thought of as a tendency in longplate 12ax7's. Very sweet tone clean or dirty.

 

[Dead Moon Rising]

Shredd! you're baaaaaack!

Another vote for GE longplate in V1 here. Another one to try would be vintage old stock Raytheon long blackplate 12ax7a for that position. See lots of them with Baldwin labels, organ tubes were selected out of larger lots. That tube has a partial 3rd mica to help in controlling microphonics, normally thought of as a tendency in longplate 12ax7's. Very sweet tone clean or dirty.

Is my GE tube a long plate? I don't have thew time to really play with that one yet. I have rehersals tomorrow, so i'm gona rock out with the old mesa tubes in and see how it sounds in the live mix. and play with the GE and Ei tubes later.

 

[domct203]

Is my GE tube a long plate?

Dom

 

[Dead Moon Rising]

Dom

Thanks.

yesterday i realized that after all my years of tubes amps i never really payed much attention to the preamp tubes, and i can't believe the difference in sound.

So do long plates make more of a difference? i noticed the JJ's i was using were short plates and the Mesa's i put back in were longplates.

Also: I had band practice this weekend too and for the first time in a while, my Dual Rectifier sounded like a Dual Rectifier!

 

[droptrd]

yeah the shorter the plate the more microphonic the tube is.

 

[Dead Moon Rising]

What about frequency responce?

 

[loudguitars]

yeah the shorter the plate the more microphonic the tube is.

Actually, I believe the opposite is true. Longer plate structures are generally more prone to microphonics. But, some feel longer plates equals larger tone! I like both long plates like Telefunkens and short plates like Teslas and RFTs. IMHO when it is NOS it's almost always good!!

Greg

 

[droptrd]

yeah the shorter the plate the more microphonic the tube is.

Actually, I believe the opposite is true. Longer plate structures are generally more prone to microphonics. But, some feel longer plates equals larger tone! I like both long plates like Telefunkens and short plates like Teslas and RFTs. IMHO when it is NOS it's almost always good!!

Greg

I could be wrong about that. But I agree, NOS is always better than POS (JJ)!

 

[nwoforlif]

How about trying that EI in V1!!! I am more than sure the distortion will slay like an army. As long as isn't mircrophonic. The GE I would put into V2. That should be the last of your buying current production tubes after hearing this setup. As soon as I bought enough NOS tubes I sold off my current production ones as fast.

I bet your DR sounded clean and not like it was being choked with a blanket!!!

NWOFORLIF

Dom

Thanks.

yesterday i realized that after all my years of tubes amps i never really payed much attention to the preamp tubes, and i can't believe the difference in sound.

So do long plates make more of a difference? i noticed the JJ's i was using were short plates and the Mesa's i put back in were longplates.

Also: I had band practice this weekend too and for the first time in a while, my Dual Rectifier sounded like a Dual Rectifier!

 

[212Mavguy]

Those long plate Mesa tubes were most likely EI long grayplates. Don't be surprised if they become microphonic within a year or so. Both shortplate and longplate tubes can develop microphonics, but longplates tend to develop the problem more readily. Some tube makers were aware of the problem and adapted their designs to help. For instance, GE used a thicker glass bottle in their longplate 12ax7 tubes. You can hear a ring in the tube if you tap it but the more massive bottle helps when the tube is in circuit. Tesla shortplate e83cc and ecc803s used a very thick walled bottle to help with microphonics.

 

[Dead Moon Rising]

How about trying that EI in V1!!! I am more than sure the distortion will slay like an army. As long as isn't mircrophonic. The GE I would put into V2. That should be the last of your buying current production tubes after hearing this setup. As soon as I bought enough NOS tubes I sold off my current production ones as fast.

I bet your DR sounded clean and not like it was being choked with a blanket!!!

NWOFORLIF

i think i can try that, this is the best the head has sounded so far, Maybe they'll improve it a little more.

Those long plate Mesa tubes were most likely EI long grayplates. Don't be surprised if they become microphonic within a year or so. Both shortplate and longplate tubes can develop microphonics, but longplates tend to develop the problem more readily. Some tube makers were aware of the problem and adapted their designs to help. For instance, GE used a thicker glass bottle in their longplate 12ax7 tubes. You can hear a ring in the tube if you tap it but the more massive bottle helps when the tube is in circuit. Tesla shortplate e83cc and ecc803s used a very thick walled bottle to help with microphonics.

I had that problem years ago with my triaxis a few months after taking it home. I changed them all like a Noob, Actually a couple of the 12ax7's i put in my Recto were from there since i saved them all.

 

[Dead Moon Rising]

For an update i sold the JJ 12ax7's to the other guitarist in my new band and they made his Stiletto sound way more agressive. he's running yellowjacket's for 15 watts at the moment and the JJ's had so much gain that he was noticable louder at the same volume settings. More agressive mid growl. he was happy with them and i think they worked better for him than me.

Ran the GE longplate in V1 and it was pretty cool. right now i'm playing with it, the Yugosavian Ei and an old japanesse 12ax7 from an old imperial amp. i'm also going to try a '70's era 12au7 in the V4 slot to see if it'll cure the "tone suck" that happens with the loop on.

Tubes should be cool enough now... back to playing around.

 

[fishyfishfish]

I ordered a bunch of NOS pre amp tubes and my Dual sounds a lot better than the stock. Did an evening of tube rolling and found my set for V1 and V2, and now I am quite happy. I did like the JJ's for my power section. Not that big of a difference from stock but it did take some of the buzzy out of CH3 Modern.

 

[212Mavguy]

Way to go Fishy!

Just a comment, lots of people say NOS when that term is misapplied, NOS means NEW Old Stock, as in unused. VOS (Vintage Old Stock) is more likely the best term since most of these vintage tubes are in fact used. Very few true New Old Stock tubes exist compared to the number available of strong used tubes. True NOS tubes don't sound as good as ones that are no longer brand spanking new and have been burned in a hundred hours or so under proper operating conditions for each type... That refers to both preamp and power tubes. Peace.

 

[Old BF Shred]

I found JJ's helped tame some of the brightness in my Ace when used in v2.
In both v2 & v1 was too much..... :x

This is just my observation. I now use "VOS" (good akro...I like it) tubes in both spots. A Telefunken rib plate in v1 and an Amperex BugleBoy in v2. This combo does allow the brightness to come through more than the JJ's but without the harshness of new production (NP) tubes (like Mesa's). Best combination I've found, so far.

I tried JJ el34's but they failed early...had to send them back.
I liked the sound but don't feel I can trust them.
SED =C= or GT el34M's seem better choices......

The JJ 12ax7 seems reliable (so far) :roll: :?: