I think I like parallel better than series???????

[TremoJem]

I have two Tremoverbs and I recently modded the FXLoop to series.

However, the G-Major uses a mix function that, depending on the mix level, can reduce output significantly.

I frequently like to bypass the FXLoop all together and just run straight from the Mesa amps by using the Mesa foot switch.

When I do this using any effects blocks on the G-Major, that may be mixed at a level beyond 50%, I get a significant level change.

This is completely undesirable.

Now it is very possible that I am doing something wrong, as I have heard that using the series mod requires little to no effects mix as it is supposed to be better than a parallel loop.

But, I assure you that I have unity gain, all good tubes and good cords etc.

I have reviewed this and read many posts discussing the benefits and some like the mod and some don't.

I, personally, never even noticed a problem with my two Tremoverbs and G-Major, and just decided to try it for a possible increase in sonic performance...if you will, but I am not sure I am on board.

So I think I might mod back to original specifications.

Your feedback and thoughts are much appreciated.

 

[BostonRedSox]

I think a lot of what you are experiencing is the fact that the loops on the amps you've mentioned aren't also fully buffered. Master volumes also makes setting series effects loops a bit tricky too.

 

[TremoJem]

So lets discuss.

I placed a cable between the send/return.

I set the active loop master to 12.

I set the channel master to 12.

Switched using the rotary knob on rear of amp.

I adjusted the send until there was no difference in levels.

This adjustment sits at around 1ish.

Place G-Major in loop.

Select three effects blocks; reverb, delay, chorus on G-Major.

Set the mix levels for each one at zero, or select the front panel bypass .

Set input levels to the manufacturers recommendations.

Set the output level to equal the level of the Mesa when switching using the foot switch.

All is equal.

Now add effects or increase mix levels for any of the aforementioned effects and you lose output.

I have been struggling since I moved the amps from the studio to my home studio.

I decided that the loop needed modding.

Did that. No progress. Even had some weird effects problems.

Opened up the G-Major. Reseated chips and all cables.

Much improved on the effects end.

I had a few years on my tubes so I replaced them all.

Now I have good sound but not equal output.

In the parallel it is very easy to maintain equal output levels as you always have original signal.

In series you don't have this luxury.

Please advise, I am always looking for knowledge.

How would you get unity gain and in what order or combination would you pursue the unity gain issue?

Thanks in advance.

 

[BostonRedSox]

So lets discuss.

I placed a cable between the send/return.

I set the active loop master to 12.

I set the channel master to 12.

Switched using the rotary knob on rear of amp.

I adjusted the send until there was no difference in levels.

This adjustment sits at around 1ish.

Place G-Major in loop.

Select three effects blocks; reverb, delay, chorus on G-Major.

Set the mix levels for each one at zero, or select the front panel bypass .

Set input levels to the manufacturers recommendations.

Set the output level to equal the level of the Mesa when switching using the foot switch.

All is equal.

Now add effects or increase mix levels for any of the aforementioned effects and you lose output.

I have been struggling since I moved the amps from the studio to my home studio.

I decided that the loop needed modding.

Did that. No progress. Even had some weird effects problems.

Opened up the G-Major. Reseated chips and all cables.

Much improved on the effects end.

I had a few years on my tubes so I replaced them all.

Now I have good sound but not equal output.

In the parallel it is very easy to maintain equal output levels as you always have original signal.

In series you don't have this luxury.

Please advise, I am always looking for knowledge.

How would you get unity gain and in what order or combination would you pursue the unity gain issue?

Thanks in advance.

I think you'd want to turn the loop up a bit, perhaps to 1 o'clock, then run your channel master lower and boost the overall volume of the amp using the output control.

 

[domct203]

Dude, did you even read the post before you replied?
You tell the OP to turn up his loop send to 1:00 even though the OP clearly stated in the sixth sentence that the loop was around "1ish". And how will tweaking the ch master and output help make up for signal loss in the G-Major. The OP has already set unity gain with the fx loop.

To the OP-
I have also experienced this with my G-Major, and will use the preset output level setting to balance patch level when this happens. I created a patch that has all effect blocks off, with the patch level @ -8dB and use that patch to set unity gain. Now I have 8dB per patch to make up for the level drop when I mix in effects.

Hope this helps,
Dom

 

[BostonRedSox]

Dude, did you even read the post before you replied?
You tell the OP to turn up his loop send to 1:00 even though the OP clearly stated in the sixth sentence that the loop was around "1ish". And how will tweaking the ch master and output help make up for signal loss in the G-Major. The OP has already set unity gain with the fx loop.

To the OP-
I have also experienced this with my G-Major, and will use the preset output level setting to balance patch level when this happens. I created a patch that has all effect blocks off, with the patch level @ -8dB and use that patch to set unity gain. Now I have 8dB per patch to make up for the level drop when I mix in effects.

Hope this helps,
Dom

Sorry Dom, I think I must not have fully understood what was written. Yikes, hopefully you guys aren't too mad about that.

Sorry about any confusion poster. I thought what I was writing made sense.

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

I've never had any problems with the Recto parallel loop. Before the Recs, I had a Marshall 6100 that had a switch to select series/parallel loop, and parallel worked better for me with that one too. I think most of the trouble people have with the parallel loop is user error. You have to set the FX unit's mix 100% wet or use whatever "dry kill" function it may have, and use the Mix knob on the amp to avoid phase-cancellation caused by latency in the FX unit"s ad/da conversion. Or you could use all analog effects, which are immune to this problem, and arguably sound better anyway.

That said, I have never tried a Recto with the serial-loop mod, nor have I had the opportunity to play on one of the Reborns. Maybe I just dont know what I'm missing, but parallel works just fine for what I'm using it for, delays and reverb.

 

[TremoJem]

That is O.K BostonRedSox.

I have made many errors and will make new ones in the future.

I appreciate your input.

Domct203, about the -8db.

That is interesting and a clever approach to a fix, thanks.

NoGlassNoClass, I agree with the parallel vs. series loop opinion you have.

I am going to switch back and give it a try.

Now I have to remember exactly what I did.

I have the instructions, but my amps were just slightly different than the instructions.

I think I had a Green jumper from the mix pot to the send pot on the middle leg of each pot.

I also think I have to move the orange wire back to the outside leg.

Wish me luck.

My amps are from 1991 so if anyone out there has this vintage and would take the time to open up the chassis and take some pics that would really help.

Thanks everyone.

 

[TremoJem]

NGNC, how does the mix pot adjustment compensate for latency?

I thought the mix pot merely added or mixed the amount effects to the original signal.

If you set the mix to 50%, 75% or 100% is there a correlation with latency?

I remember years ago before I even knew about unity gain, I called Mesa and I was instructed to run the send/mix pots at 100%.

I did this and then set the input levels according to requirements set by TC.

I then set the output level to match my Mesa bypass switch.

Pure perfection.

I don't know why I ever changed.

It is all a learning process though so I at least walk away with some knowledge.

I am curious about the mix pot and latency...so thanks in advance for your comments.

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

Silly, but maybe it's your problem. When running the G-Major in a parallel loop, you should have it in the 'Kill Dry' Global setting. If you switched to a series loop, this setting has to be changed, so the G-major passed through the dry signal in the series loop.

Eric

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

NGNC, how does the mix pot adjustment compensate for latency?

...Pure perfection...I don't know why I ever changed...

The mix pot doesn't really have anything to do with the latency of digital processors, but you can eliminate the phase problem like this: Say for example, you have the mix on your amp turned way up and you try to control the FX mix with the processor's mix control. The send from your amp is converted to digital, effects are added, and the whole mess is converted back to analog and fed to the return on the amp. This takes time (even if only a couple milliseconds), and when this signal is blended back with the dry sound of the amp it may well be out-of-phase, causing loss of volume especially in the low frequencies, and a host of other nasty side effects. This is because even with the amp's mix pot turned wide-open, there is still some dry signal present.

If your FX has a KillDry feature, or can otherwise be set to output only a 100% wet signal, none of the converted (thus latent and likely out-of-phase) dry signal is present to cause problems. Mix control on the amp blends in only effected signal and everything's good.

If your FX are analog, or at least have analog dry-thru, latency is not really even an issue.

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

Hope that made sense LOL. Overtime in the 100 deg sun, and trying to rehydrate with barley and hops, may be causing some latency issues here as well :mrgreen:

 

[TremoJem]

ibanez4life SZ! not a problem.

Drykill is set to where it needs to be.

If it was not set correctly then I would not get any signal except a very weak wet one.

Go figure.

 

[TremoJem]

NGNC, you are correct.

The G-Major does have the KillDry option.

When engaged in the parallel loop it only passes 100% wet signal.

I have certainly addressed this and thank you for answering my question.

I think I will have some time this weekend to make some changes and let you know on Monday.

 

[Gibson07]

I have a dual rec 3 ch and picked up a Boss DD7 yesterday. My plan was to run it through the effect loop on ch 2 only (my lead channel), however the sound is vastly different from when it is just out in front (and honestly not very good). Reading the Mesa manual I remember reading about this wet - dry signal thing but I am not very knowledgeable on these matters.

Have I purchased the wrong pedal for my amp or am I just setting it up wrong?

 

[volatileNoise]

I have a dual rec 3 ch and picked up a Boss DD7 yesterday. My plan was to run it through the effect loop on ch 2 only (my lead channel), however the sound is vastly different from when it is just out in front (and honestly not very good). Reading the Mesa manual I remember reading about this wet - dry signal thing but I am not very knowledgeable on these matters.

Have I purchased the wrong pedal for my amp or am I just setting it up wrong?

Great pedal, send level around 11.30 to 12 oclock, and mix level around 90 percent, close to dimed, but I find it best with slightly backed off, adjust pedal effect level to around 2 oclock.

Adjust pedal to taste, works perfect for band levels.

 

[Gibson07]

I have a dual rec 3 ch and picked up a Boss DD7 yesterday. My plan was to run it through the effect loop on ch 2 only (my lead channel), however the sound is vastly different from when it is just out in front (and honestly not very good). Reading the Mesa manual I remember reading about this wet - dry signal thing but I am not very knowledgeable on these matters.

Have I purchased the wrong pedal for my amp or am I just setting it up wrong?

Great pedal, send level around 11.30 to 12 oclock, and mix level around 90 percent, close to dimed, but I find it best with slightly backed off, adjust pedal effect level to around 2 oclock.

Adjust pedal to taste, works perfect for band levels.

Thanks mate! I will try that out as soon as I get home, much appreciated

 

[TremoJem]

I have successfully found the problem that contributed to the poor sound I was getting from my rig.

I now have no reservations about my "series" loop.

 

[Gibson07]

Do tell please!

 

[Gibson07]

Btw volatile thanks for your advice! It now works just the way I wanted stoked!