High gain preamp tubes on markiii
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mandoismetal
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I would personally get normal gain tubes and push the preamp with an OD pedal.
Too much gain may give you fizziness/sizzle that will be hard to smooth/dial out.
Too much gain may give you fizziness/sizzle that will be hard to smooth/dial out.
destropiate
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On the lead channel of your Mark III you will probably hear the biggest difference when changing the tube in V1 . The others will make a difference as well but it's hard to recommend a combination. It's all based on personal preference so I would suggest getting your hands on a few nice tubes and then testing them in V1 to see what you like. You can find some pretty good info in the following thread.
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=36173
In my experience with the Mark III I would disregard the previous posters advice. The Mark III is a monster and you don't need to run pedals to get a huge high gain sound with no "fizziness/sizzle". You can always play with them to add different tones to your arsenal but you don't need to rely on them with a Mark
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=36173
In my experience with the Mark III I would disregard the previous posters advice. The Mark III is a monster and you don't need to run pedals to get a huge high gain sound with no "fizziness/sizzle". You can always play with them to add different tones to your arsenal but you don't need to rely on them with a Mark
megavoice
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destropiate said:
Yeah Bro ! +1
I've different V1 in my both reds (original MESA SPAX in the first, and TAD in the second)and I'm always wondering WHY the second I've bought two years ago has more preamp gain and distortion on the exactly the same setting ??? Or is maybe the reason the also different power tubes .............
I'm going to change them one day. I'm curious as I also don't know if the previous owner of the second had done any mods .............
nor
Well-known member
Hot tubes are gonna get noisy, quick. Clean boost or dirt pedal in front should do the trick.
Get yourself a few RFT ecc83 tubes. Put one in v1 and v3. They will make you amp breath fire. It also takes some of the bright midrange and darkens it. I also have a Tungsol Ecc83 in v2 just to give a little different taste if I use that channel on its own or blend it with ch3. A JJ or RFT works well in v5 too.
RFT tubes to me seem to be made just for this amp if youre into metal. Very high gain and completely silent. Look for ones with the halo, not the square foil. Ive had nothing but problems with those. I guarantee once you slap in the RFTs you will come back to thank me.
RFT tubes to me seem to be made just for this amp if youre into metal. Very high gain and completely silent. Look for ones with the halo, not the square foil. Ive had nothing but problems with those. I guarantee once you slap in the RFTs you will come back to thank me.
I agree with the RFTs, completely. Be aware that it will also darken ch3 noticeably. Personally, that's perfect but others may want to keep that brittleness. Again, depending upon taste, putting an RFT in V1, too, will give the entire amp a pretty sinister vibe...too much so for me but it did rock. Keeping the SPAX7 or a Tung Sol in V1 seemed to keep the gain, definition and "life" in ch3 while keeping ch1 really sweet. Be sure to use the old halo getter and über-short plate RFTs.
Conversely, for those not pushing for metal tones out of their MkIII, I recently put an old Mullard 12ax7 in V1 and kept the RFT in V3. Channel 1 is insane for classic rock and takes a Klon perfectly. Add an EP Booster and you've got 3 channels of bliss. It doesn't mix well with the RFT in ch3, so I'm experimenting with options.
IMO, ch3 doesn't take pedals worth a squat while ch2 and 3 are fantastic. Ch3 just doesn't need any more hair to be beautiful. YMMV.
Conversely, for those not pushing for metal tones out of their MkIII, I recently put an old Mullard 12ax7 in V1 and kept the RFT in V3. Channel 1 is insane for classic rock and takes a Klon perfectly. Add an EP Booster and you've got 3 channels of bliss. It doesn't mix well with the RFT in ch3, so I'm experimenting with options.
IMO, ch3 doesn't take pedals worth a squat while ch2 and 3 are fantastic. Ch3 just doesn't need any more hair to be beautiful. YMMV.
Yadda yadda yadda. Do any of you guys actually own a Mark III?
V1 is an important tube as it is the first in line, so it has a large effect in all modes.
However, V3 is where the Lead Channel lives. V3. V3. V3.
Putting a $100 tube in V1 and a $5 tube in V3 is still going to sound bad when you go to the Lead Channel.
V1 is an important tube as it is the first in line, so it has a large effect in all modes.
However, V3 is where the Lead Channel lives. V3. V3. V3.
Putting a $100 tube in V1 and a $5 tube in V3 is still going to sound bad when you go to the Lead Channel.
Thanks for the replies guys, how about v2 and v4? Are they part of the gain stage? Or just there for reverb and fx loop?
Currently I use :
v1,v5 : tung sol RI
v2,v3,v4: JJ ecc83s
NOS tubes definitely sounds tempting, thanks for the info.
I like JJ's dark and thick character in v3, how does it compare to RFT?
Currently I use :
v1,v5 : tung sol RI
v2,v3,v4: JJ ecc83s
NOS tubes definitely sounds tempting, thanks for the info.
I like JJ's dark and thick character in v3, how does it compare to RFT?
This is not an opinion everyone shares but I would kick in that tube changes make *less* of a difference on the Mark III than any other amp I've rolled a lot of tubes through (Roadster, RA, JCM800, Ampeg V4).
Not saying it makes no difference, it does, just not much. I definitely would not bother buying one or more NOS tubes only for a Mark III. Rectos are night and day with the right tubes, but honestly I've never heard anything out of tube rolling on a III that couldn't be accomplished with:
1) a nudge of the EQ! If you are looking for 'dark and thick', don't lock yourself in with a tube change, roll down 2200 just a tiny bit, or roll down 80 some and keep Deep pulled at gig volume - normally with the Master much past 2, Deep gets boomy. Also, for heavy riffing, try using Rhythm 2 with the Volume cranked to 10 and a mild to moderate "M" in the EQ for a very thick, aggressive, dark sound that's still tight; or
2) a flick of the tone knob! Probably because it's from the end of the Old Shreddozoic period when pickups were almost all passive and people even played single-coils turned up loud, it's much more responsive than a lot of amps to volume and tone dynamics off the guitar. Remember that basically every Mesa up to the Atlantic series interprets treble early in the signal path as gain, so you can, kind of couterintuitively, get a better defined tone sometimes by rolling *back* on treble.
Not saying it makes no difference, it does, just not much. I definitely would not bother buying one or more NOS tubes only for a Mark III. Rectos are night and day with the right tubes, but honestly I've never heard anything out of tube rolling on a III that couldn't be accomplished with:
1) a nudge of the EQ! If you are looking for 'dark and thick', don't lock yourself in with a tube change, roll down 2200 just a tiny bit, or roll down 80 some and keep Deep pulled at gig volume - normally with the Master much past 2, Deep gets boomy. Also, for heavy riffing, try using Rhythm 2 with the Volume cranked to 10 and a mild to moderate "M" in the EQ for a very thick, aggressive, dark sound that's still tight; or
2) a flick of the tone knob! Probably because it's from the end of the Old Shreddozoic period when pickups were almost all passive and people even played single-coils turned up loud, it's much more responsive than a lot of amps to volume and tone dynamics off the guitar. Remember that basically every Mesa up to the Atlantic series interprets treble early in the signal path as gain, so you can, kind of couterintuitively, get a better defined tone sometimes by rolling *back* on treble.
+1
You will get more gain out of a pedal than any possible 12AX7 change.
Why anyone would need MORE gain from a Mark III Lead channel is a whole 'nother bag o' worms.
Unless those are the original strings on that guitar ;-)
You will get more gain out of a pedal than any possible 12AX7 change.
Why anyone would need MORE gain from a Mark III Lead channel is a whole 'nother bag o' worms.
Unless those are the original strings on that guitar ;-)
1st off I am an E E and repair and mod amps, V1 & 3 are very important but in a cascade gain structure all those gain stages work together and small differences ad up at the end of the line. I have found a formula I like for my MK3 red stripe. V1 Mullard reissue 12AX7 witch has the most gain & output of all current preamp tubes. V2 NOS Mullard 7025 High gain lower output. V3 NOS Mullard 12AX7 smother darker top end than reissue. If you use reverb find low gain low noise for V4. V 5 needs to be a balanced half's low noise low gain .I have used Grove tubes MPI and I bought a bunch of Electro Harmonix for cheap and out of 40 I found 5 that where exact matched sides Matched Phase Inverter. If one side is tiny bit off it gives better harmonics.
It all depends on the amp my Stereo 2:90 likes a matched 12AX7 in V1 to distribute evenly to both channels but the PI's like a slight mismatch just a few tenths of a milliamp.
It all depends on the amp my Stereo 2:90 likes a matched 12AX7 in V1 to distribute evenly to both channels but the PI's like a slight mismatch just a few tenths of a milliamp.
Markedman
Well-known member
I just got through testing different tubes in my "new" to me Mark lll blue stripe. I like metallica, etc., I tried what was in it first, sovtek 6l6's & Mesa 416's. I am now using brand new, fresh out of the package, Mesa 420 6l6's and =C= el34's. It had a SPAX in V1, I tried a mullard reissue - way too much fizz and no sparkle compared to the SPAX. Next, I tried what my black dot Mark lll likes, an Amperex Bugle Boy and that too had too much fizz when compared to the SPAX which I really liked. I then tried an old General Electric and oh boy did the harmonics jump out of that amp, wow, it came alive! I haven't tried changing the other tubes because this amp's front cover is glued on and it's hard to get at the tubes, but there is a SPAX in V3. This week I'll take it apart to fix the head shell, right now it's like a third of a combo cab that someone cut down but left an extra couple of inches on it so they could mount the fan vertically on the front where the speaker went, probably why it went so cheap, it is fugly. My Mark III blue stripe is more similar in sound to my Mark IV than my no stripe 100/60, which is really raw sounding and needs to be turned up before it doesn't sound weak. Good bedroom level tone with the blue in simul-class, I don't like class a in any amp but the combo of 34's and 6l6's sounds great.
