getting a smooth warm tone on duel rectifier head/cab??how?

[moodyedge]

anyone got a good setting for a nice gary moore blues solo tone with a les paul on the 3 ch duel rectifier head and slant cab? I just got a cab at last after months of looking so can start messing but cant get a tone like that.....the tone I have seems way too brown and dry and muffled.....? I find the bridge pickup too spikey highsa and the neck has too much mud so cant get a good balance between the two

ive tried moving the eq all over and the diff channels.... but again finding the highs are too spikey/harsh/thin to get a warm/woody/soulful/singing tone

any ideas would be appreciated

cheers

 

[MusicManJP6]

Have you tried using 'pushed' mode on clean channel?

What about running your 8 ohm cab from the 4 ohm output on your amp? This should smooth out the tone a little.

How new are the speakers in your cab? New speakers need break-in time before they sound smoother/warmer. I like buying used cabs/speakers for this reason.

Have you tried an OD pedal (Tubescreamer, etc) in front of your clean channel?

Don't be afraid to EQ the amp with your ears instead of your eyes.

It might be your guitar/pickups that are limiting your tones - just a thought.

Hope this helps!

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

Looks like that amp is at home.

There is NO WAY to get a warm smooth tone out of a recto without getting the volume UP IMO.

Get to a practice space and turn her up...it'll be much easier.

 

[moodyedge]

the cab is maybe 2 years old but has been used literally 3 times in that time by the previous owner..it was too big to get in his car and he uses a marshall all the time so i got a total steal deal on it so they are pretty much new speakers as its only been ran at bedroom volume,i did 80 gigs with my matampo cab with my orange rocker head and that sounded great,,,,maybe need to push this cab a lot to break it in...



i play heavier stuff too but i play a lot of types of stuff really...so....i need to change settings quite a bit. only used the head a few times as i sold my matamp cab a month or 2 ago. audioslave..disturbed...kse....manics....jack johnson...ratm...thin lizzy...free..........hence habing to change tones depending what mood im in and what i wana sound like or play



on trouble at home off close as you get,,,i think he used dsls on that album....its quite a brown raspy sound on that song


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUaevnP1LLg

its got bite but is still warm and bluesy on the neck pickup/...not muddy..he does use quite a few pedals i know

i just tried the ch2 on modern with the gain backed right off and it gets closer...i know thats a heavier channel but roll back with the gain and it really cleans up

still got the blues he used jtm 45 amps with a tubescreamer

i will keep messin with it

 

[moodyedge]

Have you tried using 'pushed' mode on clean channel?

What about running your 8 ohm cab from the 4 ohm output on your amp? This should smooth out the tone a little.

How new are the speakers in your cab? New speakers need break-in time before they sound smoother/warmer. I like buying used cabs/speakers for this reason.

Have you tried an OD pedal (Tubescreamer, etc) in front of your clean channel?

Don't be afraid to EQ the amp with your ears instead of your eyes.

It might be your guitar/pickups that are limiting your tones - just a thought.

Hope this helps!

i have a hand wound unpotted stormy monday pickup in the bridge so that should do it....and its wired 50s style and has oil and paper cap mods done..... im so used to using 1 channel on the orange head so it will take a bit of time adjusting to relearn other tones i can grow to like with it....a lot or messing around ahead i think..... many hours ..many many


they are like a modded super plexi ive heard so..it sould do a good thin lizzy live and dangerous tone....im sure it ill be in there somewhere,.,.just a case of hitting the right combination to unlock it maybe.....as with any other tone i need

i had a tube screamer and sold it before i got the mesa,,should hav kept it..also a blues driver...never been able to get pedals sounding how i like. i might get anopther and try that on the clean clannel like you said

 

[R_ADKINS80]

Have you tried plugging some EL34's into your Mesa? They really do have a creamier top end to them and can sound really warm if dialed in right. Also, if you are running 6L6's you could use the tube rectifier mode, spongy setting and flip the bias switch to EL34. That will net you a very warm bluesy tone with the right EQ.

 

[MusicManJP6]

Have you tried plugging some EL34's into your Mesa? They really do have a creamier top end to them and can sound really warm if dialed in right. Also, if you are running 6L6's you could use the tube rectifier mode, spongy setting and flip the bias switch to EL34. That will net you a very warm bluesy tone with the right EQ.

I'm not so sure I'd flip the bias switch to EL34 if you are using 6L6s.... Am I missing something?!

 

[moodyedge]

el34s...no..it has 6l6 in...its set on spongy and vacuum recti....

switching to el34 with 6l6's in it will go into meltdown mode im sure........?


i will maybe get 4 el34s when these 6l6 go off- good idea...something i didnt consider


i find the tone to be very dark so far....and have a lack of mids and overall warmth....im trying ....................(this is at bedroom volumes as loud as i can stand, at practice on thursday i can give it some as im yet to try it head and cab together louder)

:mrgreen:

 

[R_ADKINS80]

I've been playing my triple like that for months now. Just biases the tubes up to their normal bias range for a 6l6. I run tube rec mode with big bottle 5u4g's and bold and it biases my 6L6's at 38ma plate current and they sound phenominal. It takes alot of the fizz out, is more dynamic and is alot warmer and punchier.

 

[plapnab]

That tone you could definitly get on clean channel pushed. EL34's and a good tube screamer (for solos) should get you there. Maybe color up the tone with a Holy Grail reverb and scoop the mids a bit with a MXR 10 band EQ..both through the effects loop. This is just my opinion...I've been know to be wrong from time to time. My favorite guitar to play through the Dual Rec is a USA Strat with Gilmore EMG pickups. Not sure why I like it so much, but you do get kind of a cross between Billy Gibbons and heavy Gary Moore. PHaT!

 

[Supertgtr]

That amp needs to be played loud. Louder than bedroom levels. If you can't turn it up, maybe get a THD hotplate so you can get the tubes cooking without making your eardrums bleed.

 

[moodyedge]

yeah thanks for the advice......i feel disappointment slowly seeping in as I play it (still in bedroom however) but anyways...theres a total lack of definition and organic...erm............??? richness to the tone...im sounding slightly nerdy i know.....ive just sat wid 2 diff guitars going through every conbination of eq tweaking i could think of for 30 mins and cant get close to what i like..........

ive had the complete setup for it like 2 days really......had the head before and i was playing it through a matamp 60 watt 2x12 cab until i got a mesa 4x12....i think the orange rpcker 30 head ive used for the past 3 years was the percet blues rock vibe.....with the matamp cab sold and the mesa boogie standing in my room im looking thinking "is this the most expensive mistake ive made so far?" maybe i should have bought a jtm 45 reissue and a tubescreamer

just palm muting one note and picking constanly with the same hand, with the other ive been tweaking the eq all over on every channel i was trying to get a clear, bright but rich tone and the g string but cant..........

the clean pushed is better but still lacks that thing "you cant quite put your finger on" as it says in the book....or something like..how ironic....

muffled
distant
souless
lack of mids
lack of richness

etc




i understand that pushing the volume gets the tone out as Ive played a 30 watt a class orange for 3 years BUT...........does the tone change much when you crank it say........master on 10pm and output on 9pm...i did that im my room and it didnt seem much diff just a dam sight louder as things began to shake and fall off shelves in the room..haha

ive put the treble right up and the mids right up there close to maxed and the bass down and its still not clear and any channel....on ch3 modern with the gain rolled right off it is slightly clearer than the other channels but goes spikey and brittle

ha
oh dear

someone maybe say "well stick with the orange then you stupid s*** " but i wanted a more heavier saturated tone but still warm..but with the option of having a nice blues rock tone as well as a nu metal vibe in one amp so i bought the duel rectifer............was my hunch off target or am i just being a little inpatient?

if i have to spend anymore money i want it to be very little so what wshould i get to get the biggest improvement to the issues raised....new power tubes (el34's) or a ibanez pedal?

 

[Jerrick]

I have a two channel Dual Rectifier, so im not what you can take from this.

I run a boost in front of my amp, that adds very little grit, a small bit of compression and gives a good volume boost. Well, maybe not volume, but it makes it bigger.

From my rp80 its into the amp. Bold, silicon diodes.

Orange channel: This is a great warm clean sound, with the boost on, sustain for days, great for bluesy solos, and can get gritty when you dig in.
Presence - 11:00
Bass - 11:50
Mid - 10:00
Treble - 12:30
Gain - 9:30

Red channel: Good for heavy rhythm, roll of the volume and its great for anything really. With the boost on, it gets really heavy and tight, good for djenty riffs/metal, and does really well for leads. Warm, saturated, creamy leads.
Presence - 1:30
Bass - 11:00
Mids - 2:00
Treble - 1:30
Gain - 3:00

These both sound great at low levels, even when you cant hear the amp outside of my room at night, the tone is still as good as it when cranked for shows and practice.
The settings arent exact, but they are all just a few minutes from what I posted above.

I cant wait to put a delay in the loop. Should make it even smoother, and fuller in all areas. But getting a boost of some kind in front really helps a lot. Ive heard nothing but good things about the Danelectro Cool Cat Transparent Overdrive. And its only $50. Probably cheaper if you look around a little. So keep trying, have some patience with the amp and find what works with your guitar and any pedals you end up with.

 

[Cleekster]

yeah thanks for the advice......i feel disappointment slowly seeping in as I play it (still in bedroom however) but anyways...theres a total lack of definition and organic...erm............??? richness to the tone...im sounding slightly nerdy i know.....ive just sat wid 2 diff guitars going through every conbination of eq tweaking i could think of for 30 mins and cant get close to what i like..........

ive had the complete setup for it like 2 days really......had the head before and i was playing it through a matamp 60 watt 2x12 cab until i got a mesa 4x12....i think the orange rpcker 30 head ive used for the past 3 years was the percet blues rock vibe.....with the matamp cab sold and the mesa boogie standing in my room im looking thinking "is this the most expensive mistake ive made so far?" maybe i should have bought a jtm 45 reissue and a tubescreamer

just palm muting one note and picking constanly with the same hand, with the other ive been tweaking the eq all over on every channel i was trying to get a clear, bright but rich tone and the g string but cant..........

the clean pushed is better but still lacks that thing "you cant quite put your finger on" as it says in the book....or something like..how ironic....

muffled
distant
souless
lack of mids
lack of richness

etc




i understand that pushing the volume gets the tone out as Ive played a 30 watt a class orange for 3 years BUT...........does the tone change much when you crank it say........master on 10pm and output on 9pm...i did that im my room and it didnt seem much diff just a dam sight louder as things began to shake and fall off shelves in the room..haha

ive put the treble right up and the mids right up there close to maxed and the bass down and its still not clear and any channel....on ch3 modern with the gain rolled right off it is slightly clearer than the other channels but goes spikey and brittle

ha
oh dear

someone maybe say "well stick with the orange then you stupid s*** " but i wanted a more heavier saturated tone but still warm..but with the option of having a nice blues rock tone as well as a nu metal vibe in one amp so i bought the duel rectifer............was my hunch off target or am i just being a little inpatient?

if i have to spend anymore money i want it to be very little so what wshould i get to get the biggest improvement to the issues raised....new power tubes (el34's) or a ibanez pedal?

GT 6L6GE's and GT E34LS's are the ONLY tubes i've ever had in my recto that gave me anything resembling warmth at bedroom volume everything else just sounded like my old Line 6......there's nothing wrong with that as long as you don't want warm and organic.....Hair metal was the original target audience of early recto's when they were being designed and IMO the 3 ch. rec's are much more of a pure metal amp so the only way i've found to get a warm and organic sound is to use as little preamp gain as possible and let the power amp do all of the heavy lifting.
I think what i call my classic rock tone is what your after:
master 12:00
output 2:30
gain 8:30

if this is too distorted then turn down the output till you get what your after.
if you want warm and organic from a recto you've got to CRANK.....you'll also need a 2x12 for the extra midrange punch for what your looking for i think. also you need to use pushed or vintage mode.......if you can't stand to turn up really loud then just make sure your master knob is around 12:00 and it should get you a little closer.

 

[fleeced]

... don't despair .. the tones are in there ... the DR just takes a lot of dialling, then you get "eureka" moments

some tips from messing with my DR over the years:

keep the gain low on ch1 - less boomy, more sparkly .. you have to wind the channel ch1 master up to compensate
change the v1 pre amp tube for a Tung Sol (really made a huge improvement for me)
Don't go too gain heavy on ch2 and 3 as it gets a bit fizzy ... (high gain metal heads sometimes run a EQ in the loop with the top frequencies rolled off) -
I found ch2 better either around "raw - over 12 o'clock" - or vintage under 12o'clock
ch 3 modern or vintage with the gain lower than you'd think ....
use the tube rectifiers for some bluesy "sag"
use spongy for even more.....

Definitely keep channel masters low and power amp master high

 

[lailer75]

try turning the pres way down or off. sorry if you`ve already done this but i find doing this gets rid of the spikyness of the rectos

 

[Cleekster]

Definitely keep channel masters low and power amp master high

Actually you need to run the master up too as this slams the PI which is where that classic cranked sound comes from...the PI provides the sound while the power tubes provide the distortion and the feel.

IME for a good classic rock tone you need to run the ch. master all the way up on pushed or about halfway on the raw/vintage/modern settings run the master output at 12:00-max andrun the gain at 8:00-9:00(or 11:00-2:00on pushed). also having some fairly dirty power tubes is really helpful.

On most marshalls and the like the volume control is at the same place in the circuit as a Mesa'a "Master" knob(right BEFORE the PI)so you have to slam the PI before you get power tube distortion and slamming the PI is what gives you that "Cranked" sound...on mesa's and other channel switchers the global master(output)is a PPIMV and controls how clean/dirty the power tubes run. so this flexability means that you can run the Master high and output low and still get a quasi-cranked sound.

okay that's all for today...class dismissed :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[moodyedge]

Definitely keep channel masters low and power amp master high

Actually you need to run the master up too as this slams the PI which is where that classic cranked sound comes from...the PI provides the sound while the power tubes provide the distortion and the feel.

IME for a good classic rock tone you need to run the ch. master all the way up on pushed or about halfway on the raw/vintage/modern settings run the master output at 12:00-max andrun the gain at 8:00-9:00(or 11:00-2:00on pushed). also having some fairly dirty power tubes is really helpful.

On most marshalls and the like the volume control is at the same place in the circuit as a Mesa'a "Master" knob(right BEFORE the PI)so you have to slam the PI before you get power tube distortion and slamming the PI is what gives you that "Cranked" sound...on mesa's and other channel switchers the global master(output)is a PPIMV and controls how clean/dirty the power tubes run. so this flexability means that you can run the Master high and output low and still get a quasi-cranked sound.

okay that's all for today...class dismissed :lol: :lol: :lol:

dirty power tubes???????? what do you mean by that??

 

[Geiri]

try the channel two vintage mode. Presence way up and others to taste. That was what I used for a smooth lead tone when I had a recto. Also make sure you are on tube tracking and stay clear of them diodes.

 

[moodyedge]

i will post the setting ups when im happy with them. I just bought a maxon 0d808 so that should help. Im getting pretty close to the tone I like. Got a great Thin Lizzy 'Live and dangerous' tone yesterday and a great growly paul kossoff tone too so Im learning and getting closer to what i like. I think maybe people think mesa=metal but I can get all kinda of sounds from my duel rec which Im pretty impressed with. Im also trying for a bell-like fender 65 clean sound to play jack johnson with and I can get close to that too 'f stop blues' tone.

Being used to a orange rocker 30 a class head and just making tony tweaks for a slightly diff toine 'more mids etc' the mesa's eq works diff as anyone who has one will eventually catch onto. Theres somne great tones in there though and a few days ago both guitars a 97 LS standard with bareknuckle pickup, 50s wiring etc and a epiphone lp custom with seymour 59's BOTH sounded crap. Now they sound diff from each other after some eq tweaking . epiphne for kse tone and 97 LP for blues

After ive learned the amp I will look for 'my' tone as opposed to sounding like someone else. Im yet top play the amp LOUD yet so that will be interesing to see if the settings hold out and convert to higher volumes

currently i have output on maybe 7.30 and masters on ch 2 and 3 around 11-12