ESP Eclipse Guitars.... What do you guys know about them?...

[Rectified in 95]

Hi guys, I am trying to do a little research on used ESP Eclipse guitars and I figured I would ask everyone here to see what these guitars are like. Here's a few things I'm interested in finding out...

-I read something about a lawsuit with Gibson because they had 4 knobs like the LP's. I also see on Ebay people are making mention of "pre-lawsuit" guitars. Does that imply that other than a redesign of the knob configuration, the post-lawsuit versions are of lower quality?

-I saw on here that someone regretted selling their ESP because the Les Paul he replaced it with wasn't as nice as ESP's copy of it?

-Should I expect to feel the same weight with an ESP like the LP's?

-Is the sustain in the Eclipses similiar to a LP?

-What kind of money would one expect to pay for a used ESP Eclipse from the mid 1990's with a Floyd Rose locking trem system on it? I'm not sure what a fair price would be. I haven't seen the guitar in person yet so I figured I'd ask around on here to see what the general opinions were on them.

Well, thanks for your time guys! Hopefully some ESP owner's will have some good advice for me. Talk to you later!

 

[Guitar Adjuster]

I tried a new one out recently, the "ESP" branded one not the LTD. The neck is thinner and faster then an LP and the body is about 1/2 inch thiner also, doesn't quite have the "chunk" sound of an LP and weighed a lot less too. Overall it was a nice guitar and played great but I perfer the LP since that is what I am use to. I will admit the fit and finish were first class, Gibson could only dream about getting getting that part right!

 

[Rectified in 95]

I'm glad you mentioned the ESP vs LTD. Are you familiar with what the differences are between them? I love the sound of the Les Paul's, I just don't care for the weight. But I guess some of that "Les Paul" sound comes from that heavy weight though. Thanks for your response. Hopefully some ESP owners will reply with some insight too.

 

[Guitar Adjuster]

ESP is made in Japan and LTD in Korea. I think the ESP are better quality and better wood, also more $$$.

 

[Rectified in 95]

Ok, I got ya now. Isn't that funny how there's a situation with whether a guitar is made in Korea, China, Japan or in the US? It sounds like the US versions are always better quality than any of the others. But I've heard the Korean made guitars are of decent quality too. I don't remember hearing much about guitars that were made overseas if you go back to 10 years ago or so? But then again, maybe I just wasn't paying much attention either!? The only guitar I had that wasn't made in the US was my Mexican Strat...which I still have. -Although, I'm not terribly impressed with it. I do like the light maple neck it has.

I've also heard some good things about the Hamer guitars that were made in Korea. They were modeled after the Hamer Studio's made in the US. Any experience with them? I've heard that if you swap out the pick-ups for higher outputs, they are great guitars for the money.

I'm looking to pick up a decent guitar for hopefully less than about $700 so I'm trying to explore all options. Well, thanks again! I appreciate it!

 

[David.W]

My exESP.

I dont know alot about the law suit I have read that it was based on the unlicensed use of the lespaul design in general, not specifically the knob arrangement.

I replaced my ESP with a LesPaul custom, Ive never looked back, I never will. Its true the ESP is very well built, theres nothing out of place anywhere, and Gibson does seem to have quality issues these days, but that just means you have to shop for the right Gibson. Esp Eclipse is still affordable which is a plus.

The LP is way heavier due to the thickness, almost twice as thick it seems, personally I like it

Sustain, many things can effect this, ESP has active pickups, what amps your using, how good you are. Both guitars will do well, the LP of course is famous for it.

Mine as you can see is a fixed bridge, so im not sure.

I found the ESP to be more a me'tal guitar and it was nice, but just not me, I admire alot of the guys that play Gibsons, I like the tone, so its the way I went. Not one regret. I plan on a silver burst custom one day and a winered standard.

Good luck.
~D

 

[MesaENGR412]

The other guitarist in my band just recently purchased the ESP/LTD EC-1000 in see-thru black cherry. It's a beautiful, and the store he bought it from gave it to him for the same price as the black and sunburst models, and the price included a hardshell case! It sounds amazing coming through both his Krank Rev 1 and Hughes and Kettner TriAmp. We play music similar to As I Lay Dying, Unearth and Killswitch Engage (guitarwise). So, This thing is used for metal, and it suits it perfectly. I wouldn't see this guitar doing much else though, but, that being said, the EMG 60 in the neck does give some really good clean tones for an active pickup. I'm going to get one for my EXP soon. (I have dual 81's in it right now). I have not yet played this guitar, but, judging by my friend, he likes it a lot.

-AJH

 

[Howitzer]

-I read something about a lawsuit with Gibson because they had 4 knobs like the LP's. I also see on Ebay people are making mention of "pre-lawsuit" guitars. Does that imply that other than a redesign of the knob configuration, the post-lawsuit versions are of lower quality?

No reduction in quality - The difference is the lower "Horn" or single cutaway, is different that a gibson, and there are only three tone knobs. They had to change the body work a little also so there is no longer a copywrite infringement. You can still buy the "Pre-Lawsuit" model outside of the united states. In the US the pre-lawsuit is the Eclipse, and the post lawsuit is called the eclipse 2 (what I have).



-I saw on here that someone regretted selling their ESP because the Les Paul he replaced it with wasn't as nice as ESP's copy of it?

Thats an opinion. I cant tell you which guitar is better - I will tell you that I decided to go with an eclipse over a les paul studio for a reason.



-Should I expect to feel the same weight with an ESP like the LP's?

In general, No. The Eclipse weighs MUCH less. Its thinner than the LP. As far as playing, It is about the same ballpark, But I find the string tension, general setup, and tuning stability to be much better on the Eclipse. I feel like the esp is a "Tighter" guitar, IMO, until you get into LP customs, or one that has been set up very nicely.

-Is the sustain in the Eclipses similiar to a LP?

Similair yes, But seeing as the LP is a bit bigger than the Eclipse i imagine it would be easier to get the LP to sustain. Although, I have never needed more sustain than what the eclipse offers (I wouldnt worry about this question.)

-What kind of money would one expect to pay for a used ESP Eclipse from the mid 1990's with a Floyd Rose locking trem system on it? I'm not sure what a fair price would be. I haven't seen the guitar in person yet so I figured I'd ask around on here to see what the general opinions were on them.


As far as the Les Paul clone, Im pretty sure they never made a Floyd version. You may see some custom shop models, or people who have routed them out afterwards. I would say anything from 500-900 would be fair, Depending on condition. If a really nice one came up, maybe even 1100-1200.


I hope that helped you - I have had My eclipse II standard for about 6 months now, and Love it. My only qualm was the EMGs, But you cant win every battle.

-Matt

 

[MesaENGR412]

Gibson really grinds my gears with all these lawsuits. I believe these are far worse than anything Lars did to Napster....... (which, I wasn't against Lars anyway, it just pissed off everybody who likes free music). I mean, if they could back up those lawsuits with quality guitars that are up to par with the ESP Custom Shop, then they wouldn't have to worry about people buying the Eclipse over the LP. But to shell out 3 grand for a mediocre Looking and PLaying Les Paul vs. a Hand-built-to-exact-specs Eclipse, I know what I'd choose. Just a thought of mine. Don't mean to step on any Gibby fans toes. They just love to attack others who try to "improve" or "re-design" their original and it makes me angry. I'll never get over them making ESP stop the EXP's.....those are so much better than the Gibsons IMO(and I got a new one out of the country in spite of the suit :lol: :lol: :lol: ) Anyway, enough of my rant. This is about an Eclipse, good guitar. I'd go for the Truckster myself.

-AJH

 

[Rectified in 95]

You guys made a lot of good points. Thanks! I used to own a Gibson SG about 10 years ago but then sold it when I quit playing for a few years. I haven't personally owned a Les Paul, but I've played a buddy's and it was a nice guitar...but heavy. His was a gift from a family member and it was an older model from the 70's. I can't remember which specific Les Paul it was though. It needed some fret work and some misc electronics work, but definitely a good guitar after the work was done.

It doesn't seem like my SG was made to near the quality like the older Gibson he had. I would say that my SG was "quirky". It came very close to a guitar that I really liked, but something just wasn't quite right about it for me. -But I can't put my finger on what it was?! Almost like if you pick up a nice PRS and without even playing a note you can tell just by the feel of it that you have a top quality guitar. -My SG never gave me any of that feeling. I guess that's why I didn't have too hard a time selling it after it was sitting for a while..Although I still wish I never sold it! Ha!

One guitar that I checked out this weekend was a Les Paul Double Cut model. I didn't even realize Gibson made a double cut version!? I have to say I liked the weight of it and it sounded good. It also had a great looking flame top in transparent black. It looks like a tough guitar to find for less than about $1000-1200 though.

If anyone has any suggestions for a guitar that's good quality in the $500-$800 range, here's what I'm looking for...

-2 humbuckers
-flame or quilt maple top
-similar to a Les Paul single cut style, or a PRS double cut look
-preferably no trem system but if it stays in tune (unlike my Strat) I'd be ok with having one

Thanks guys!

 

[David.W]

If anyone has any suggestions for a guitar that's good quality in the $500-$800 range, here's what I'm looking for...

-2 humbuckers
-flame or quilt maple top
-similar to a Les Paul single cut style, or a PRS double cut look
-preferably no trem system but if it stays in tune (unlike my Strat) I'd be ok with having one

Ned, talk to the man about Tokai!

:wink:

 

[Rectified in 95]

I just took a quick look on Ebay and those Les Paul versions they make look pretty sharp. The only thing I forgot to mention in my last post was the weight issue of a Les Paul. I read in one description of the Tokai Les Paul that it was about the weight of a real Les Paul. I broke some vertebrae several years ago and using a real single cut Les Paul is just too much weight hanging there now. That's why I perked up when I stumbled across a double cut Gibson Les Paul this weekend. It sounded great (at a show), and prior to the show I was talking with the guy. He showed me his single cut LP and then his double cut LP and the weight difference was substantial, but didn't seem to sacrifice much sound quality to me.

So I guess I should update by saying I'm definitely interested in a LP double cut look if someone knows of a good quality guitar that's either a little thinner to cut weight, or is chambered without sacricifing sound. Thanks again! I appreciate it!

 

[David.W]

If your bent on a Gibson and you like the les paul but the weight is too much (i have low back issues and I hear what your saying) the custom shop made a LP custom Light in the 80's that is similar to the ESP weight, try find one of them maybe.

SG is very light, and so are the LP.JR's

 

[MesaENGR412]

You may want to have a look at the higher end PRS SE models as well. I dunno, It may be worth a shot. I've heard a lot of good things from friends that own these guitars, they really seem to like them.

-AJH

 

[eldi]

Has Gibson ever tried to sue Hamer? I think it was great when Gibson tried to sue PRS over the Singlecut & lost, that there almost makes me GAS for one of those!

 

[devilboy]

I had a floyd equiped eclipse a few years ago. it was a very playable (thin U neck) guitar with a sweet, smooth tone.

that said, these models (floyd equiped, non-custom standards) are far from being les pauls. thin, carved mahogany body and skinny bolt-on neck felt more like a short-scale jackson or ibanez.

I picked it up in a pawn shop for $450 and saw number of them on ebay around that time going anywhere from $350-500.

my two cents would be that if you want lp sound but light weight, check out an SG. my standard blow doors on my lp classic.

 

[SeasonOfPain]

Just played one of the ESP Eclipses yesterday (I was shopping for an EMG-equipped guitar), and came away distinctly unimpressed. I own a '72 Les Paul Goldtop and a long time ago owned an '81 Les Paul Custom (still the best guitar I ever owned). While the Eclipse was MUCh lighter than a LP, it felt kind of flimsy by comparison.

The tone was OK (played through a Mark IV and a Roadster at the store), nothing to write home about. Sustain was average, but the LP has much more.

The worst for me on the Eclipse was the tuning stability. I know LPs have a reputation for losing their tuning too (my Custom had trouble staying in tune, but my Goldtop is very solid), but the Eclipse went out of tune after only ten minutes of vibrato soloing.

I'm not a Gibson nut (I usually play my EBMM guitars more than my LP), but the ESP Eclipse didn't do it for me. I also tried an ESP LTD MH 400NT at the same store, and much preferred the tonally and playability that guitar over the Eclipse (even thought that's an LTD and I was playing the non-LTD Eclipse). Maybe the Eclipse was a bum unit, who knows.

 

[Bolanos]

ESP and LTD guitars for me are the best. I used to love Gibsons until I discovered the ESP Eclipse and ESP Viper. Basically they are both improvements on the classic Les Paul and SG models. I own both the Standard Eclipse and Standard Viper. I also own the LTD EC 1000.

The LTD EC 1000 puts my Les Paul Standard to shame. How can a guitar thats only worth around $900 new, plays better, stays in tune better, come with high end hardwear, looks and feels like it could be worth much more. My Gibson Les Paul cost me around two grand, and I dont even play it after getting the EC 1000.

The EC 1000 is very similar in quality to the Eclipse Standard. They both out perform the Gibson in every way. I do believe that Gibson is very over priced. Basically you pay for the name on the headstock.

Dont get me wrong, I love Gibson, but they need to start getting real. cause the price that they sell their guitars for, is not worth it. And they need to get their quality control in shape.

 

[cliff hetfield]

i played an ec 400 once because i thought it looked cool, and i have to say it felt light and cheap, at least compared to the gibson explorer and les pauls studios ive owned.
i wanted to try a hetfield model primer grey ltd or the esp version, but never have.

 

[rainsong86]

if you do buy a gibson don't just order one from online.. I made this mistake when I ordered a Gibson SG silverburst.. I would normally not buy a guitar I haven't played but I've played plenty of SG standards and I could only get the silverburst online (they were being snatched up like none other).. I love the SG design to death but the guitar came blemished and had various quality control issues.. the black burstover finish in the upper horn cutaway is already starting to come off to the point that I can see the silver undercoat.. what a horrible company.. I'm never getting a Nashville Gibbo again, even if I buy the one I play at the store.. It's Gibson custom shop or nothing (love the VOS series btw)

more along the lines of this thread.. I think you would be satisfied with the ESP Eclipse if you like metal.. although I think it's kind of silly putting EMGs into such great tonewoods.. to me EMGs make all guitars sound the same.. The 81/60 is a great combo though.. I wouldn't want to use the more common 81/85 combo because the 85 in the neck would be too harsh for cleans.. just make sure to get a Japan model Eclipse (yes typically japan models are better than china and korean models).. Every higher end Japanese guitar I've played has surpassed USA guitars in their price range.. I own a Yamaha AES920 which has more attention to detail than the gibson custom shop for a quarter of the price ($620 used)