EL34s, 6L6 or EL84s

[toneguy86]

Hi all,
I'm the proud owner of a LSC and am currently running JJ E34Ls. One thing I am looking at is that this is already a mid and low end heavy amp. Plus I mostly play Les Pauls. I also love that British sound, but am thinking of trying 6L6s again or even trying to go with EL84s (I have heard you can do that with a "yellow jacket" adapter).

My question is, what are people on the board running for tubes? Anyone out there using EL84 and if so...why? Any thoughts or opinions and which tubes work best for this amp?

Mark

 

[fishyfishfish]

I did a big tube roll with my LSC, loved the El34's with Strats, 6L6 with Pauls, never tried the Yellow Jacket adapters. The best sound I found was stock 6L6 and a hot 12ax7 for V1. Lots of folks love to experiment with different tube combos so do a search of the "Board" and see if you like the results. Good Luck!

 

[djw]

I went on at length about one approach with 6V6s and EL34s here:
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=36386

I've also spent a lot of time with a combo of YJs (i.e. EL84s) and 6V6s, which I really liked too... if you want to ease up on the lows and get some more bloom in the mids and some more chime, this is a nice combo. I have not gone with straight YJs, since they're about $100 a pair... But the nice thing about them is that they're self-biasing so you can combine a pair of them with a pair of 6L6s, EL34s, or 6V6s and see what you like.

Charles Reeder has done a lot of experimentation, matching hotter-biased tubes with the LSC (which is set to run a bit cold), which I recommend looking around for (mostly in the Modern Era thread upstairs). There's a bit to consider with this, such as the fact that going with tubes that run too hot or cold can damage your amp (and anyway, technically using non-Mesa branded tubes voids your warrantee, fwiw), but a little know-how and detailed discussions with some tube vendors can get you pretty far.

Bottom line with the LSC though... I can't really get a convincing British voice out of it, to tell the truth. It is what it is, which is quite nice, but it's pretty much a Yank. :lol:

 

[toneguy86]

I went on at length about one approach with 6V6s and EL34s here:
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=36386

I've also spent a lot of time with a combo of YJs (i.e. EL84s) and 6V6s, which I really liked too... if you want to ease up on the lows and get some more bloom in the mids and some more chime, this is a nice combo. I have not gone with straight YJs, since they're about $100 a pair... But the nice thing about them is that they're self-biasing so you can combine a pair of them with a pair of 6L6s, EL34s, or 6V6s and see what you like.

Charles Reeder has done a lot of experimentation, matching hotter-biased tubes with the LSC (which is set to run a bit cold), which I recommend looking around for (mostly in the Modern Era thread upstairs). There's a bit to consider with this, such as the fact that going with tubes that run too hot or cold can damage your amp (and anyway, technically using non-Mesa branded tubes voids your warrantee, fwiw), but a little know-how and detailed discussions with some tube vendors can get you pretty far.

Bottom line with the LSC though... I can't really get a convincing British voice out of it, to tell the truth. It is what it is, which is quite nice, but it's pretty much a Yank. :lol:

I read the other thread and it sounds interesting. I've never used 6V6s. I pretty much just figured they were a variation on a 6L6. What is the difference sonically? I'm no tech so the idea of running a 6L6 like tube on the EL34 class setting makes me tad nervous, but it might work. I agree about the British vibe. There are days it comes close...but even with EL34s not exactly. I do love what EL34s do on the clean channel especially, but I find myself, with Les Pauls and other Mahagany and maple axes with buckers and P90s anyway, dialing way, way back on the lows and mids with this amp. With the drive run much higher then the gain (for a bit more chime), a dial back on the lows (I have E34Ls actually which are designed to compensate for the distinct loss of low end that often happens with EL34s) and just a slight goose on the mids (never above 10:00 though) it does just kinda have that ol' British, sorta kinda early Marshall (clean channel just a tad Vox like even) sound. The last time I played out I pulled out the Mayall version of "All your Lovin" and had moments where I coulda sworn I was crankin through an ol' low watt Bluesbreaker. But then...it is only close. I also play with so many different bands and need other sounds also. What my thoughts are is that either 6L6s or YJs w/EL84s will fill that need. THEN when I go out with my own band I can crank up the E34Ls. I love having an amp that does all of that with a quick tweek and a flip of a switch.

Mark

 

[djw]

Some folks, myself included, compare 6V6s more closely to EL34s rather than 6L6s. But they're really their own animal; their tonal qualities have been described at length here and there (the LSC manual does a nice job), but a very tangible quality is the fact that they essentially run at about half the power output of the bigger tubes, which is cool if you're looking for a lower-power approach to the beast. The main reason 6V6s are semi-interchangeable with 6L6s is because they just happen to bias around the same level.

The 6V6-at-EL34-bias trick is for 6V6s that are specifically biased at a particular rating (as tested by a particular vendor). If you get whatever a vendor typically sends you, they'll probably be biased a little higher and are better matched with the 6L6 setting anyway... this is just fine too. The trick with the EL34 setting matches these particular rated tubes in a way that runs things on the hot side, which really makes them sing. They get hairy earlier and the drive quality is really sweet. Headroom is kinda shot in this setup; for that reason, I'm now running a pair of EL34s in the middle sockets, which I engage when I need a little more headroom. This also sounds really incredible.

I recommend: Contact a vendor (tubedepot.com, Eurotubes, Doug's, thetubestore.com, all excellent) and tell them what you have. Help them sell you a pair of 6V6s for your LSC. Meanwhile go get yourself a pair of Yellowjackets. You can use the YJs with a pair of any of the other three tube types; and remember if you run at 50w, you'll be running only outer sockets and you'll get an idea of how those tubes sound. The nice thing about YJs is that they're self-biasing so they can be run at 6L6 or EL34 bias. (ok, I see I'm repeating myself here... sleepy this morning)

One other thing: both the YJs and 6V6s essentially output about half the power of 6L6s; if you use either of these, you'll probably want to plug your 8ohm speaker into the 4ohm output.