Dual RectoVerb 25 and Torpedo Reload are NOT compatible!

[The Lo Lands]

Hello all, i'm new to this forum and own my first Mesa Boogie amplifier.

I just bought the Two Notes Torpedo Reload and i use it with a new Mesa Boogie Dual RectoVerb 25 amplifier (8 ohm speaker out) as a load box/attenuator and for recording. By using the 10 watt setting of the Mesa the 'speaker led' of the Torpedo Reload only blinks when i play the guitar, this is normal behavior. When i switch the Mesa to the 25 watt setting the 'speaker led' blinks in a steady but constant pattern 'on- and off', even if i don't play the guitar and set the volume of my guitar completely off? What's going on here, this is not normal behavior? So there is some strange interaction between the Mesa and the Reload? Within Logic Pro i loaded a graphic EQ plugin and i noticed a constant rumble from 0 to 100 Hz at around -30 dB, without even playing the guitar. With the 4 ohm setting the curve is lower in dB but the rumble noise is also still there. What i also noticed is that if the Mesa (put 'on' from standby) and Reload are 'on' and i don't play a note on the guitar the 'speaker led' of the Reload stays 'off' and the rumble isn't there yet, but when i play the guitar it starts right after that. Also when the Mesa is in standby modus the rumble and 'speaker led' blinking is completely gone.

Below a screenshot from the EQ plugin within Logic Pro. I'm not playing the guitar, this is the curve of the constant low end rumble. On the right M-Audio panel you can see the constant dB output this rumble is causing.

A few days ago i have contacted Mesa Boogie- and Two Notes support about this issue because the Mesa and Reload are still under warranty but i didn't receive an answer from Mesa (yet)?

I have talked with the Two Notes tech and the conclusion is that he can't figure out what's causing this issue, there is some kind of 'feedback loop' going on but where it comes from?? He needs the same amp to check this strange behavior but we can't expect he has all amps in his office I've checked all the cables, different AC outlets, all guitar effects, different guitars and other hardware, you name it. But still no luck to figure this out.

I also have a Orange Rockerverb 50 watt amplifier and with this amp attached the 'speaker led' of the Torpedo Reload acts normal, just as the 10 watt setting of the Mesa so the more wattage of any amp isn't the problem.

A strange question maybe but i try to figure out why the Torpedo Reload 'speaker led' acts differently with the 25 watt amplifier setting of the Mesa Boogie amp and where the rumble is coming from. Is there maybe someone on this forum who has the same Mesa RectoVerb 25 amplifier and the Two Notes Torpedo Reload (or Live or Studio) and can check this same setup? Maybe someone from the Boogie support can also shine some light over this issue?

Thanks! Milo

 

[The Lo Lands]

I did some research about the Mesa Boogie Dyna-watt technology and what it does. This amp works on this 'new' technical principle and this is what i found online:

Hi
i wanted to know about Dyna-Watt technology,
is it Class A, Class AB, or cathode biased ?
How does it work ?

Answer:

Basically the 'Dyna-watt' system has not much to do with the amps operating class. It is a system where some energy is stored in capacitors to give a bigger momentary output when required eg for greater impact to initial note transient attacks. They have tended to use it with the lower powered EL84 amps like my Subway, your DC2 and the F.30 for example, and it is quite effective without being obvious. It won't do anything for the continuous RMS power output of course, but for lead work especially it can help the amp to punch a bit above its weight.

Extra info i found:

DYNA-WHAT?

UNDERSTANDING THE 5:25?S SECRET WEAPON

Mesa?s Dyna-Watt circuitry is a clever way of getting more power out the 5:25?s two EL84 valves, which would traditionally yield only 15 to 20 watts.
The technology is not new ? Mesa first filed a patent for Dyna-Watt in 1986 ? but it has undergone a good deal of refinement. In layman?s terms, Dyna-Watt effectively stores up power so it can be released when you hit a note ? Randall Smith uses the analogy of a camera flash ? giving more power at that instant. The amp is constantly recharging and releasing power as you play, though it?s not something you?ll notice at all ? we didn?t witness any notes being artificially cut off or any other odd behaviour from the 5:25.

- - -

I know i'm guessing but i think this technology might affect the interaction with the Mesa amp and the Reload. The 'normal' 10 watt setting works perfect and by changing the setting to 25 watt (Dyna-Watt) the problems occur. I hope that someone else with the same setup can confirm my findings. Or maybe someone with another Mesa type amp with this same Dyna-watt technology!?

Unfortunately still nothing from Mesa support? Maybe Two Notes will dig deeper in this Dyna-Watt technology Mesa Boogie uses, and i hope they come to the same conclusions based on technical facts?

To be continued...

 

[Authorized Boogie]

I did some research about the Mesa Boogie Dyna-watt technology and what it does. This amp works on this 'new' technical principle and this is what i found online:

Hi
i wanted to know about Dyna-Watt technology,
is it Class A, Class AB, or cathode biased ?
How does it work ?

Answer:

Basically the 'Dyna-watt' system has not much to do with the amps operating class. It is a system where some energy is stored in capacitors to give a bigger momentary output when required eg for greater impact to initial note transient attacks. They have tended to use it with the lower powered EL84 amps like my Subway, your DC2 and the F.30 for example, and it is quite effective without being obvious. It won't do anything for the continuous RMS power output of course, but for lead work especially it can help the amp to punch a bit above its weight.

Extra info i found:

DYNA-WHAT?

UNDERSTANDING THE 5:25?S SECRET WEAPON

Mesa?s Dyna-Watt circuitry is a clever way of getting more power out the 5:25?s two EL84 valves, which would traditionally yield only 15 to 20 watts.
The technology is not new ? Mesa first filed a patent for Dyna-Watt in 1986 ? but it has undergone a good deal of refinement. In layman?s terms, Dyna-Watt effectively stores up power so it can be released when you hit a note ? Randall Smith uses the analogy of a camera flash ? giving more power at that instant. The amp is constantly recharging and releasing power as you play, though it?s not something you?ll notice at all ? we didn?t witness any notes being artificially cut off or any other odd behaviour from the 5:25.

- - -

I know i'm guessing but i think this technology might affect the interaction with the Mesa amp and the Reload. The 'normal' 10 watt setting works perfect and by changing the setting to 25 watt (Dyna-Watt) the problems occur. I hope that someone else with the same setup can confirm my findings. Or maybe someone with another Mesa type amp with this same Dyna-watt technology!?

Unfortunately still nothing from Mesa support? Maybe Two Notes will dig deeper in this Dyna-Watt technology Mesa Boogie uses, and i hope they come to the same conclusions based on technical facts?

To be continued...

Hi Milo,

We have been in contact since May 28 and have been working on your issue. Our 2 lead technicians agree that this is due to the change in reflected impedance caused by the Torpedo, which changes the negative feedback equation and is causing motor-boating. The 25w mode is strongest in the amp and will have the most negative feedback developed. Also, the 10 Watt setting changes the configuration of the output tubes (Pentode to Triode), so it will change how the output transformer connects to the load - which is why it occurs in the 25w mode and not the 10 watt mode. The Dyna-Watt design has no effect on the situation. I hope that helps!

Best regards!

 

[The Lo Lands]

Thanks! It's not a battle which company was first. I've contacted Two Notes about 2 weeks ago and contacted Mesa Boogie support the same day. Two Notes responded the same day and in the end i had to contact Mesa Boogie with my facebook account because they didn't respond within, by their own saying, 48-72 hours. This had something to do with sending my problem to the distributor in my own country who said he didn't receive this mail?? A month ago i also contacted Mesa Support with the same result, no answer.

In the end i'm glad Mesa Boogie had some spare time to take a look inside this issue. With the information Mesa Boogie provided me, Two Notes also came to the conclusion that the Mesa Boogie Dual RectoVerb 25 is not compatible with the Two Notes Torpedo Reload! According to Two Notes this is the first time this is happening. I also think that maybe more amps from Mesa Boogie (25 series) have issues with the Torpedo (reactive load) series, but who knows, maybe it's only this amp?

I'm still in contact with Two Notes to see if there is a possibility to build a modification so the Reload will work with the Mesa amplifier. According to Two Notes this may result in a slight loss of low end. So i hope they can make a switchable MOD so i can use the Reload in different amp situations. I use this amp in my homestudio and if in the end it can not deal with reactive load boxes i have no use for it and have to sell the amp.

 

[The Lo Lands]

From the gear page forum:

sysexguy said:
Do you still have the CabClone? If so, could you try the CabClone and the Reload (both 8ohm) in parallel using the 2 4Ohm jacks, monitoring via the Reload and see if the issue is still present and if the sound is to your liking. With amps, often the best sounds are when the "train is running on 2 wheels" and this may be just enough of a change to arrest the motorboating without compromising the sound or requiring any internal mods.

I still have the Cab Clone and did what you said...

...and, this is the best of both worlds!! It works and sounds like a charm with this dual load box setup. I've checked by using the EQ plugin within my DAW if there was still some rumble left, but everything is fine and no motorboating. Maybe for alot of folks not a cheap solution but for me this is really great. You really made my day, thank you very much sir sysexguy! This week i will see if this keeps working but i think this is the perfect solution for my problem. And another nice touch is that i can use this setup to create a 'true' stereo cabinet setup with IR software by using both line-outs of the Reload and Cab Clone