Dual Rectifier 2 ch - Question

[Rkorn]

Hey,
i'm on the market for a Dual Rec (Just found a good deal on a Single)
So, i told the guy to get the price lowered, and he did! Which is awsome, i'll be trying the Single next week.

Problem is:
Today i also found a good deal on a Dual (which can achieve the tone of the single, i believe, and vice-versa is impossible)
The Dual is a 2 ch.
My question is, how old must the dual 2 ch be??? Since it is only 2 ch? this question is for me to get some info on the amp, mainly its age, to get the price lowered.
If he doesn't lower the price, i'll be going with a single (which i believe is not that bad).

I have a 212 Rec, live i'm using a 412 and i know watts don't mean volume, i play extreme metal mainly!

 

[94Tremoverb]

Get the Dual if the prices are even remotely comparable.

It's just a much better amp, and as you already know, the Dual can get very close to the sound of the single (if you want to...), but not the other way round.

The only advantage the Single has apart from lower weight and cost is that the clean channel is cleaner and more glassy/Fendery. Although personally I think it sounds a bit sterile and I actually prefer the 'less good' cleans of the 2-channel Dual.

2-channel Duals were made from 1991 up to 2000, it's not exactly 'old'.

 

[domct203]

Get the Dual if the prices are even remotely comparable.

It's just a much better amp, and as you already know, the Dual can get very close to the sound of the single (if you want to...), but not the other way round.

The only advantage the Single has apart from lower weight and cost is that the clean channel is cleaner and more glassy/Fendery. Although personally I think it sounds a bit sterile and I actually prefer the 'less good' cleans of the 2-channel Dual.

2-channel Duals were made from 1991 up to 2000, it's not exactly 'old'.

+1

With the Dual you also get the option of Tube Rectification, which is not available with the Single.

Dom

 

[Rkorn]

Hey,
tks for the replies!!
It seems that the guy with the dual has 2 of them. One is 2 ch other is 3 ch.
He asks a bit more for the 2 ch, so i'm going for the 3ch! EXCELLENT PRICE!!

I know everyone says 2 ch is better, but i heard somewhere and also read that 2nd ch of both heads are almost identical if dialled in right, thick and chunky, the 3rd ch is a bit more fizzy!!
I bet i can get a good tone out of it, so i'm going for it!!

There is only 1 but: The amp is US, and i'm in Europe, i'm getting a step-down trans, but later on i want to take care of the transformer inside the head so that i have no need for the step-down... Any thoughts on this???
tks

 

[94Tremoverb]

The 3-channel doesn't sound quite the same as the 2-channel on any channel, but if you want the extra channel then go for it. The clean channel is more like the Single too, if that matters.

You won't be able to fit the step-down transformer inside the head. The absolute minimum size you need for a Dual Rec is 300W (300VA), and even that's not enough if you plan to crank it - 500 is better. This is a pretty big object. If you mean replacing the amp's own PT, good luck getting a Mesa one for any sensible price in Europe. You need the exact one to get all the functionality too, just any ordinary 100W amp transformer won't do.

Are you saving enough money on the import (remember to include shipping, insurance and customs duty, plus the step-down transformer, or the new PT plus the work to fit it - which is quite a lot) to make it worthwhile? Rectifiers are not that rare in Europe and sell for less used than you may think, compared to the new (rip-off) price.

 

[Rkorn]

Sorry, but i forgot to mention that the amp is already in Portugal.
The guy went to the States a couple of years ago and brought the amp with him.
He already has a Step-down but somehow the transformer burned, he has another one and i'll be trying the amp with that one.
I'll be bringing the broken one so that i can get someone to fix it.
I think i'll be getting a new one instead! they are not that expensive!!
I've been hearing some clips and opinions on the 3ch vs 2 ch and most say that the 2 ch is better but not by a long shot... as the 2nd ch on the 3ch can be quite similar to the 2ch 2nd ch...
Still, a Dual Rec is a Dual Rec.. and I'll be getting mine this week My back is loving this whole idea!!!

 

[94Tremoverb]

He already has a Step-down but somehow the transformer burned, he has another one and i'll be trying the amp with that one.

I'll take a small bet that the transformer burned because it was under-rated for the job - in which case be careful before you crank up the amp if he has another one the same. It's an easy mistake to make, if you don't know much about electricity - the amp is a 100W amp, so a 100W transformer is what you need, right?

No. 100W is the power *output*, and tube amps are very inefficient. Most put out well over 100W when cranked, anyway - 100W is the rated *clean* power. A typical 100W guitar amp *draws* about 350-400W at full distorted output, so that's the size (or bigger) of transformer you need. 500W is better. For these purposes, "VA" (volt-amps) is the same thing as watts (W).

Apologies if you know this already, but I've seen enough people make this mistake that it's worth spelling out.

You will get away with testing a 100W amp at low volume with as low as a 200W transformer, but I'm not sure I would even try a 100W one - the power draw at idle is more than that usually.

I'll be bringing the broken one so that i can get someone to fix it.

If the winding is burned out you won't be able to fix it, and it may be unwise to try anyway - there is a way that a step-down transformer can break which will result in the full (220V) input voltage getting through to the output... which would be bad news if it was connected to a 120V amp at the time. Unless you *really* know what you're doing with things like this, don't risk it.

I think i'll be getting a new one instead! they are not that expensive!!

Exactly.

I've been hearing some clips and opinions on the 3ch vs 2 ch and most say that the 2 ch is better but not by a long shot... as the 2nd ch on the 3ch can be quite similar to the 2ch 2nd ch...

Similar, but not identical. Still a good amp though.

 

[Rkorn]

Well, I got the amp. Went to the store with it... and decided to get it to 230v instead of fixing the step-down... I'll probably sell the thing, or maybe return it to previous owner as the thing came 'free' with the amp.

The amp sounds awsome! When the tech inspected it for marks or bruises, he said 'well, the amp is almost new, no marks whatsoever'

The thing is, the amp is REALLY dirty! with dust, the front grill also... any ideas on how to clean it? mainly the grill?? to get it shiny again??