Distortion Pedal with a Dual Rectifier?

[Dino.]

How many of you guys are using distortion pedals with your dual rectifier? And why?
I often see posts from members here stating that they use "Tube Screamers" or whatever and I just want to know what the advantage(s) are. Is there not enough gain through the amp itself? Or is there another reason?

Just curious.
Thanks!

 

[Shemham]

I suspect you mean overdrive pedals by your reference to Tube Screamer.

Overdrives and clean boost pedals are typically used to boost the signal from the guitar to the amp in order to get more compression. While Rectos have lots of gain available, they are quite dynamic and unforgiving amp. Some people like to add pedal to their signal chain to have easier time picking fast technical stuff with lots of palm muting, some to compensate low output pickups and some to shape their solo sounds and add some sustain.

Some OD pedals like the Tube Screamers also cut some of the lowest and highest frequencies from the guitar signal which makes the overall tone more focused. That's why they're so popular with rectos which might have too much low-end for some people. They allow some of the excess low-end to be attenuated which removes muddiness from high gain tone.

In my view, Rectifiers don't need boost pedals, but they might benefit you depending on your guitar and pickups. I use low output paf59 type bridge pickup with double row of screws and I still get enough tight attacks for technical metal stuff without boost by just adjusting my picking style and amp settings. I guess the clarity of low output pickups suits rectos.

I have no experience with distortion pedals with rectos. You could use them on the clean channel if you didn't like the distortion of rectos or wanted to have a palette of different distortion tones available. I have vague memory of Anathema using Distortion pedals with Rectos at some point.

 

[Dino.]

I suspect you mean overdrive pedals by your reference to Tube Screamer.

Overdrives and clean boost pedals are typically used to boost the signal from the guitar to the amp in order to get more compression. While Rectos have lots of gain available, they are quite dynamic and unforgiving amp. Some people like to add pedal to their signal chain to have easier time picking fast technical stuff with lots of palm muting, some to compensate low output pickups and some to shape their solo sounds and add some sustain.

Some OD pedals like the Tube Screamers also cut some of the lowest and highest frequencies from the guitar signal which makes the overall tone more focused. That's why they're so popular with rectos which might have too much low-end for some people. They allow some of the excess low-end to be attenuated which removes muddiness from high gain tone.

In my view, Rectifiers don't need boost pedals, but they might benefit you depending on your guitar and pickups. I use low output paf59 type bridge pickup with double row of screws and I still get enough tight attacks for technical metal stuff without boost by just adjusting my picking style and amp settings. I guess the clarity of low output pickups suits rectos.

I have no experience with distortion pedals with rectos. You could use them on the clean channel if you didn't like the distortion of rectos or wanted to have a palette of different distortion tones available. I have vague memory of Anathema using Distortion pedals with Rectos at some point.

Thanks Shemham.
So if I'm reading this correctly, overdrive pedals just help to shape the tone a bit?
I have noticed a lot of difficulty trying to dial in a good tone with my own Dual Rectifier.
I may have to try it. Thanks again!

 

[ryjan]

I HATE od pedals in front of any amp. Especially something as tight and gainy as a Rectifier.
In my opinion they are used by people who pick like they're afraid of the strings or are used to playing Line 6 amps on "Insane Metal" with the gain dimed.

 

[YellowJacket]

Thanks Shemham.
So if I'm reading this correctly, overdrive pedals just help to shape the tone a bit?
I have noticed a lot of difficulty trying to dial in a good tone with my own Dual Rectifier.
I may have to try it. Thanks again!

OD pedals can be used to shape the tone a bit but more importantly, they increase the strength of the electrical signal from the guitar going into the amp. This means that the preamp clips harder which yields even more gain. It also has the side effect of 'compressing' the signal somewhat which can add sustain for soloing. They also give a tighter and more immediate attack which is different from the broader and looser feel of plugging straight into a recto.

I don't think the OD pedal is going to fix the tone issues you are having. If you have trouble dialing in good tone, you may need to consider some things besides the amp. You need to consider your guitar, pickups and electronics, instrument cable, amp / tubes, speaker lead, speaker cabinet, and speakers. Each component shapes and thereby affects the tone.

Are you a new DR user? Are you new to tube amps? How long have you been playing guitar?

Just a short digression on technique. The Electra Dyne is my favourite guitar amp right now, or at least the best I was willing to pay for haha. I like it specifically because there is a direct relationship between the feel of how I play and the sound that comes out of the amp. In plain English, one tone setting on one mode of the amplifier can give many different sounds depending on how I play. To me, this feels like the amp has soul because I am able to take advantage of these tonal colours to play with a lot of emotion.
If I practice a lot and work on my technique all the time, I can sound really great with an amp like this. If I don't practice the downside is that I can sound really bad. Poor playing sound exceptionally poor because uneven picking and a poor connection between string and fret is blatantly audible and downright distracting. Also, if I accidentally mute the wrong string with my pick or fingers then my phrasing is interrupted.

The Recto is also very sensitive and musical like this, but it is in the realm of high gain. Perhaps you need to log more hours on it?

 

[ryjan]

The Recto is also very sensitive and musical like this, but it is in the realm of high gain. Perhaps you need to log more hours on it?

This +10.

Boosting a Recto is like drowning a Kobe Beef ribeye in ketchup.

 

[firmani99]

I HATE od pedals in front of any amp. Especially something as tight and gainy as a Rectifier.
In my opinion they are used by people who pick like they're afraid of the strings or are used to playing Line 6 amps on "Insane Metal" with the gain dimed.

Agreed!

 

[Melodyman]

Some of the best tones ever recorded were amps (even higher gain ones) boosted with a pedal, perfectly valid tool in the toolbox just imo.

Heck I used to boost Uberschall's back in the day along with my Recto's in the 90's.

Tried a Metalzone set as a boost in front of my old Roadster head, instant death metal tone. I'm sure that would go over well with the anti pedal crowd. :lol:

Try it, there are no rules.

 

[domct203]

Some of the best tones ever recorded were amps (even higher gain ones) boosted with a pedal, perfectly valid tool in the toolbox just imo.

..................

Try it, there are no rules.

Agreed, no rules.

I started boosting amps back in the 90's when I owned a JCM900. I was in the studio, and just couldn't nail a particular lead, the engineer said "try this", and through a TS-9 in front of the amp. Nailed it on the first take after.

I've been boosting amps since. I find that it gives me the compression & sustain I need with out cranking the gain on the amp and compromising clarity.

As always, YMMV.

Dom

 

[Heritage Softail]

Boosts are ok. Dial back the gain a bit and try it out.

I would say try to play it louder. The tone of the amp changes when it is loud. The speakers react differently, decrease the gain and crank it up. Some like active pups with a recto. Also a noise pedal, like a Decimator helps with cleaning up the chugging too.

If the tone you are seeking is more Marshall like, get a second amp, like an old DSL100 used on the cheap. The Recto has an iconic legendary tone. Marshall crunch is not one of them.

 

[Dino.]

I don't think the OD pedal is going to fix the tone issues you are having. If you have trouble dialing in good tone, you may need to consider some things besides the amp. You need to consider your guitar, pickups and electronics, instrument cable, amp / tubes, speaker lead, speaker cabinet, and speakers. Each component shapes and thereby affects the tone.

Are you a new DR user? Are you new to tube amps? How long have you been playing guitar?

Fairly new to the DR.
Not new to tube amps.
Have been playing for 30+ years.
Have all top of the line gear (PRS, Gibson, etc)

Just a short digression on technique. The Electra Dyne is my favourite guitar amp right now, or at least the best I was willing to pay for haha. I like it specifically because there is a direct relationship between the feel of how I play and the sound that comes out of the amp. In plain English, one tone setting on one mode of the amplifier can give many different sounds depending on how I play. To me, this feels like the amp has soul because I am able to take advantage of these tonal colours to play with a lot of emotion.
If I practice a lot and work on my technique all the time, I can sound really great with an amp like this. If I don't practice the downside is that I can sound really bad. Poor playing sound exceptionally poor because uneven picking and a poor connection between string and fret is blatantly audible and downright distracting. Also, if I accidentally mute the wrong string with my pick or fingers then my phrasing is interrupted.

The Recto is also very sensitive and musical like this, but it is in the realm of high gain. Perhaps you need to log more hours on it?

I understand exactly what you're saying ...
The DR is very unforgiving of sloppy playing.
That's really not my issue.

I didn't post this thread to try to address any issue I have with my tone but rather to see why several members here are using Tube Screamers. But when a response came back that mentioned using OD pedals to shape tone, I thought I may want to try it.

I do in fact difficulties dialing in a good tone (EQ) with my DR though, particularily the lows.
There appears to be a very limited amount of usable low frequency.
Adjusting anything past, say 2:00, is not even noticable.
Overall, the low EQ on the amp just has no "balls".
Backing off the Presence and/or high-end EQ just causes the amp to get lost in the mix and sound like mud. I have a matching Mesa Rectifier 4x12 cabinet and usually keep my gain at around 10:00, for what that's worth.

My other amp is a first generation 5150 (with Marshall A/B cabinets).
I know the DR is no 5150, but the 5150 does have a "Resonance" feature that serves as a low-end EQ and really gives the amp BALLS!

Any suggestions?

 

[domct203]

What model Rectifier do you have?

If you have a newer model with a series FX Loop I recommend you try a good Graphic EQ in the Loop. The MXR 10-band EQ is a great EQ that will handle the Recto's hot loop level no problem.

If you have an older model with a parallel FX Loop I recommend you look into modifying the Loop to series (extremely easy & reversible) and try a GEQ.

You could turn the parallel FX Loop mix to 90%, but the remaining 10% of dry signal may introduce phasing issues, and you will not be able to properly cut frequencies.

Dom

 

[Dino.]

What model Rectifier do you have?

I have a 3-channel DR but there are apparently several versions of the Dual Rectifier.
My very first post here was regarding channel 3 having more presence than channel 2.
From that information, a member was able to determine which version I had.
I still don't know.

If you have a newer model with a series FX Loop I recommend you try a good Graphic EQ in the Loop. The MXR 10-band EQ is a great EQ that will handle the Recto's hot loop level no problem.

If you have an older model with a parallel FX Loop I recommend you look into modifying the Loop to series (extremely easy & reversible) and try a GEQ.

You could turn the parallel FX Loop mix to 90%, but the remaining 10% of dry signal may introduce phasing issues, and you will not be able to properly cut frequencies.

Dom

I seriously considered adding an EQ.
I guess now I just need to determine whether my amp has a series FX loop or parallel.

 

[domct203]

If you only have a "Send" level control it is a series loop. If you have both a "Send" & "Mix" control it is parallel.

Dom

 

[Dino.]

If you only have a "Send" level control it is a series loop. If you have both a "Send" & "Mix" control it is parallel.

Dom

Thanks Dom!
I'll check it out when I get home tonight.

 

[Dino.]

If you only have a "Send" level control it is a series loop. If you have both a "Send" & "Mix" control it is parallel.

Dom

Looks like it's parallel.
Is there anything I can do with this type of setup or do I need to mod it to series?
What all is involved and what are the benefits to doing this?
Thanks so much!

 

[YellowJacket]

I don't think the OD pedal is going to fix the tone issues you are having. If you have trouble dialing in good tone, you may need to consider some things besides the amp. You need to consider your guitar, pickups and electronics, instrument cable, amp / tubes, speaker lead, speaker cabinet, and speakers. Each component shapes and thereby affects the tone.

Are you a new DR user? Are you new to tube amps? How long have you been playing guitar?

Fairly new to the DR.
Not new to tube amps.
Have been playing for 30+ years.
Have all top of the line gear (PRS, Gibson, etc)

Just a short digression on technique. The Electra Dyne is my favourite guitar amp right now, or at least the best I was willing to pay for haha. I like it specifically because there is a direct relationship between the feel of how I play and the sound that comes out of the amp. In plain English, one tone setting on one mode of the amplifier can give many different sounds depending on how I play. To me, this feels like the amp has soul because I am able to take advantage of these tonal colours to play with a lot of emotion.
If I practice a lot and work on my technique all the time, I can sound really great with an amp like this. If I don't practice the downside is that I can sound really bad. Poor playing sound exceptionally poor because uneven picking and a poor connection between string and fret is blatantly audible and downright distracting. Also, if I accidentally mute the wrong string with my pick or fingers then my phrasing is interrupted.

The Recto is also very sensitive and musical like this, but it is in the realm of high gain. Perhaps you need to log more hours on it?

I understand exactly what you're saying ...
The DR is very unforgiving of sloppy playing.
That's really not my issue.

I didn't post this thread to try to address any issue I have with my tone but rather to see why several members here are using Tube Screamers. But when a response came back that mentioned using OD pedals to shape tone, I thought I may want to try it.

I do in fact difficulties dialing in a good tone (EQ) with my DR though, particularily the lows.
There appears to be a very limited amount of usable low frequency.
Adjusting anything past, say 2:00, is not even noticable.
Overall, the low EQ on the amp just has no "balls".
Backing off the Presence and/or high-end EQ just causes the amp to get lost in the mix and sound like mud. I have a matching Mesa Rectifier 4x12 cabinet and usually keep my gain at around 10:00, for what that's worth.

My other amp is a first generation 5150 (with Marshall A/B cabinets).
I know the DR is no 5150, but the 5150 does have a "Resonance" feature that serves as a low-end EQ and really gives the amp BALLS!

Any suggestions?

When was the last time you changed your power tubes? A Recto through a Mesa 4 x 12 has an annoying overabundance of low end thump and grunt.

 

[Dino.]

I don't think the OD pedal is going to fix the tone issues you are having. If you have trouble dialing in good tone, you may need to consider some things besides the amp. You need to consider your guitar, pickups and electronics, instrument cable, amp / tubes, speaker lead, speaker cabinet, and speakers. Each component shapes and thereby affects the tone.

Are you a new DR user? Are you new to tube amps? How long have you been playing guitar?

Fairly new to the DR.
Not new to tube amps.
Have been playing for 30+ years.
Have all top of the line gear (PRS, Gibson, etc)

Just a short digression on technique. The Electra Dyne is my favourite guitar amp right now, or at least the best I was willing to pay for haha. I like it specifically because there is a direct relationship between the feel of how I play and the sound that comes out of the amp. In plain English, one tone setting on one mode of the amplifier can give many different sounds depending on how I play. To me, this feels like the amp has soul because I am able to take advantage of these tonal colours to play with a lot of emotion.
If I practice a lot and work on my technique all the time, I can sound really great with an amp like this. If I don't practice the downside is that I can sound really bad. Poor playing sound exceptionally poor because uneven picking and a poor connection between string and fret is blatantly audible and downright distracting. Also, if I accidentally mute the wrong string with my pick or fingers then my phrasing is interrupted.

The Recto is also very sensitive and musical like this, but it is in the realm of high gain. Perhaps you need to log more hours on it?

I understand exactly what you're saying ...
The DR is very unforgiving of sloppy playing.
That's really not my issue.

I didn't post this thread to try to address any issue I have with my tone but rather to see why several members here are using Tube Screamers. But when a response came back that mentioned using OD pedals to shape tone, I thought I may want to try it.

I do in fact difficulties dialing in a good tone (EQ) with my DR though, particularily the lows.
There appears to be a very limited amount of usable low frequency.
Adjusting anything past, say 2:00, is not even noticable.
Overall, the low EQ on the amp just has no "balls".
Backing off the Presence and/or high-end EQ just causes the amp to get lost in the mix and sound like mud. I have a matching Mesa Rectifier 4x12 cabinet and usually keep my gain at around 10:00, for what that's worth.

My other amp is a first generation 5150 (with Marshall A/B cabinets).
I know the DR is no 5150, but the 5150 does have a "Resonance" feature that serves as a low-end EQ and really gives the amp BALLS!

Any suggestions?

When was the last time you changed your power tubes? A Recto through a Mesa 4 x 12 has an annoying overabundance of low end thump and grunt.

Tubes are fine.
Is there a page here that may show some recommended settings?
I understand "tone" is subjective, but it may get me in the ball park.
Also, where should my settings be on the parallel effects loop?
I have a G-Major processor, if that matters.

 

[YellowJacket]

When were the tubes changed last? This amp is an original 3 channel model which puts it at minimum 4 or 5 years old now (Or older) so if it was not retubed recently, the tubes may be worn. If the amp sounds dull (Lack of highs) and lifeless (No punch, like what you're saying) that is a sign that it may be due for a retube.

Have you turned the amp UP? Like not at bedroom levels where the thing inevitably sounds like a fizzy mess?

Plug guitar with one patch cable into the amp and then plug the speaker lead into the cab. Dial in from there, without any crap in front of the amp or in the FX loop. If you have a tone sucker in your signal chain, this will allow you to identify it quickly.

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious here but we get a lot of these sorts of topics and the problem **usually** is one of the things I listed.

Best way to dial in the amp is to put all the knobs at noon (except master / volume) and adjust to taste from there. You may simply dislike the amp, it has happened before. Not everyone likes rectos.

 

[Dino.]

When were the tubes changed last? This amp is an original 3 channel model which puts it at minimum 4 or 5 years old now (Or older) so if it was not retubed recently, the tubes may be worn. If the amp sounds dull (Lack of highs) and lifeless (No punch, like what you're saying) that is a sign that it may be due for a retube.

Have you turned the amp UP? Like not at bedroom levels where the thing inevitably sounds like a fizzy mess?

Plug guitar with one patch cable into the amp and then plug the speaker lead into the cab. Dial in from there, without any crap in front of the amp or in the FX loop. If you have a tone sucker in your signal chain, this will allow you to identify it quickly.

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious here but we get a lot of these sorts of topics and the problem **usually** is one of the things I listed.

Best way to dial in the amp is to put all the knobs at noon (except master / volume) and adjust to taste from there. You may simply dislike the amp, it has happened before. Not everyone likes rectos.

Thanks YellowJacket.
That's good advice.