Cleans on the new plus

[hendrik84]

What I always loved about the old 525 was the clean sound but after trying out the new plus in the store two different times, I'm beginning to think the clean sound has changed...for the worse?

Maybe I'm just a little crazy these days. I never pulled the plunge on the 525 so I was really excited to see the new features on the plus and had my mind set on one in 2013 but I don't know...is it just me or has the clean sound been altered? I can't quite put my finger on it, maybe the old version was more compressed?(not meaning the new one is more open, I mean compressed in a good way if that makes sense).

What say ye?

 

[Krek13]

clean was changed, mesa announced that officially...

 

[hendrik84]

Do you guys think it was changed for the better?

Is it possible to dial in a similar tone as the old one? Or are they two different beasts?

 

[sax4blues]

This change I don't understand, my 5:50 has great cleans and I don't recall any user complaints. I don't know what better clean is, but I tend towards the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy.

 

[midifail]

The new Clean on the Express Plus is far less noisy and is a bit warmer than the normal Express Series.
Big Improvement.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

I really don't think it changed much. I do notice that I have to use more gain, like up to 80%, on the clean channel to make it equal what my original Expresses had at half. But that's about it. And it definitely didn't change for the worse. Sounds freakin amazing. This amp is the best pedal platform on the market right now, and it's because of the clean channel.

 

[hendrik84]

What I found super interesting after doing a shootout between the MKV, the 525+, and the 550+ yesterday is the best crunch sound I could get was out of the 525(granted I might have to spend more time with the Mark). The 550 simply cannot pull out the same crunch sound, it's not half as vintage. I don't know what is the cause, the 6L6's? The V30 vs the Black Shadow?

But clean sound on the 550, WOW, Amazing!! It rivaled the cleans on the MKV. But for some reason the 525 couldn't come close to deliver the same pristine, chimey clean sound. What gives? Same possible reasons as before? Don't know...

Now I want the cleans out of the 550 and the crunch out of the 525. I have no idea what to do. Maybe I can dial in the right crunch out of the Mark V, then my problem would be solved.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

I think speaker choice has a huge impact on your crunch sound. I'm running my 5:50+ through a rectifier vertical slant 212 with Mesa V30's in it. I think it gives the best of both worlds to the clean and crunch tones.

I almost...almost was going to pull the trigger today on a Mark V head just because, but after hearing my tones last night with the band I realized that was a foolish thing to do. Our keys player just kept raving about how good the amp sounded. Normally they don't even notice, but when they do, it's good to listen.

I had an OD pedal going into the clean channel and it was just so clear. Even if you aren't in love with the amp's crunch channel, you can make that amp into ANYTHING because of how great a pedal platform it is.

 

[hendrik84]

yeah no need to change if you like what you hear. gas can be a disease!

 

[Newysurfer]

What I found super interesting after doing a shootout between the MKV, the 525+, and the 550+ yesterday is the best crunch sound I could get was out of the 525(granted I might have to spend more time with the Mark). The 550 simply cannot pull out the same crunch sound, it's not half as vintage. I don't know what is the cause, the 6L6's? The V30 vs the Black Shadow?

But clean sound on the 550, WOW, Amazing!! It rivaled the cleans on the MKV. But for some reason the 525 couldn't come close to deliver the same pristine, chimey clean sound. What gives? Same possible reasons as before? Don't know...

Now I want the cleans out of the 550 and the crunch out of the 525. I have no idea what to do. Maybe I can dial in the right crunch out of the Mark V, then my problem would be solved.

the 5:50 and 5:25 sound different - always have - different tubes, different speakers.
As for the original vs the Plus - whether they've been enhanced as Mesa says is total personal preference. Some people will agree - some will not.
A/ B them yourself to decide :mrgreen:

 

[MrMarkIII]

The new 5:25 has a 12" speaker standard.
It's the EL-84 tubes make the tonal difference.
Compared to 6L6s, less bottom, less headroom, more midrange presence and crunch.

 

[BoogieMan_SC]

What I found super interesting after doing a shootout between the MKV, the 525+, and the 550+ yesterday is the best crunch sound I could get was out of the 525(granted I might have to spend more time with the Mark). The 550 simply cannot pull out the same crunch sound, it's not half as vintage. I don't know what is the cause, the 6L6's? The V30 vs the Black Shadow?

But clean sound on the 550, WOW, Amazing!! It rivaled the cleans on the MKV. But for some reason the 525 couldn't come close to deliver the same pristine, chimey clean sound. What gives? Same possible reasons as before? Don't know...

Now I want the cleans out of the 550 and the crunch out of the 525. I have no idea what to do. Maybe I can dial in the right crunch out of the Mark V, then my problem would be solved.

Very interesting and thanks for posting. I agree w/you on the 5:25+ crunch. I was never able to get that kind of crunch out of my (previously owned) 5:50. FWIW, I sold my 5:50 to purchase a Road King II (v2) and missed the 5:50 from the day it left...I liked the 5:50 a lot better than the RK2. It really was a killer pedal platform. That being said, I really do prefer my 5:25+ over either of them. I run my 5:25+ along with a Fargen-modded Fender Princeton Reverb Reissue and a Dr. Z Maz Sr 2x12.

 

[hendrik84]

The new 5:25 has a 12" speaker standard.
It's the EL-84 tubes make the tonal difference.
Compared to 6L6s, less bottom, less headroom, more midrange presence and crunch.

Yeah but it's a V30 in the 525 vs the C90 in the 550.

So the the EL-34 have "less bottom, less headroom, more midrange presence and crunch."? or was vice versa?

 

[hendrik84]

What I found super interesting after doing a shootout between the MKV, the 525+, and the 550+ yesterday is the best crunch sound I could get was out of the 525(granted I might have to spend more time with the Mark). The 550 simply cannot pull out the same crunch sound, it's not half as vintage. I don't know what is the cause, the 6L6's? The V30 vs the Black Shadow?

But clean sound on the 550, WOW, Amazing!! It rivaled the cleans on the MKV. But for some reason the 525 couldn't come close to deliver the same pristine, chimey clean sound. What gives? Same possible reasons as before? Don't know...

Now I want the cleans out of the 550 and the crunch out of the 525. I have no idea what to do. Maybe I can dial in the right crunch out of the Mark V, then my problem would be solved.

Very interesting and thanks for posting. I agree w/you on the 5:25+ crunch. I was never able to get that kind of crunch out of my (previously owned) 5:50. FWIW, I sold my 5:50 to purchase a Road King II (v2) and missed the 5:50 from the day it left...I liked the 5:50 a lot better than the RK2. It really was a killer pedal platform. That being said, I really do prefer my 5:25+ over either of them. I run my 5:25+ along with a Fargen-modded Fender Princeton Reverb Reissue and a Dr. Z Maz Sr 2x12.

Some nice amps you have to complement each other!

 

[edward]

The new 5:25 has a 12" speaker standard.
It's the EL-84 tubes make the tonal difference.
Compared to 6L6s, less bottom, less headroom, more midrange presence and crunch.

Yup, badabing!

I thought the 525 also had the MC90 ....wasn't aware Mesa loaded it with the V30 so yes, that'll alter the voice significantly. But there is no doubt that the 6L6 and EL84 voices differ significantly ...separated by the Atlantic ocean, perhaps
There is no bridging this gap. Until you find an amp that fits you perfectly without compromise (ahem, good luck with that), then there will likely always be that "but I wish it had just a little more...."

Such variances explains the very reason folks own more than one amp: different voicings. So playing live, you can either use an A/B/Y box and switch between amps for clean and crunch. Or, one can simply EQ to get the closest one can get. I've found a bit of a compromise: I've found my LPs sound better to me on the 525 while my Strat/Tele sounds better with the DC5. So given what I'll be playing more, I'll choose the amp accordingly. It ain't perfect, but then again, my playing ain't anywhere near perfect anywhoo ..lol

Edward

 

[hendrik84]

My wife will love the idea of two amps :mrgreen:

 

[edward]

Yes, the sacrifices we make in the name of marital harmony

Edward

 

[hendrik84]

yeah no kidding!

 

[STONEHEAD]

I think speaker choice has a huge impact on your crunch sound. I'm running my 5:50+ through a rectifier vertical slant 212 with Mesa V30's in it. I think it gives the best of both worlds to the clean and crunch tones.

I almost...almost was going to pull the trigger today on a Mark V head just because, but after hearing my tones last night with the band I realized that was a foolish thing to do. Our keys player just kept raving about how good the amp sounded. Normally they don't even notice, but when they do, it's good to listen.

I had an OD pedal going into the clean channel and it was just so clear. Even if you aren't in love with the amp's crunch channel, you can make that amp into ANYTHING because of how great a pedal platform it is.

I would agree on how well the 5:50 takes pedals. I Have the 5:50 2x12 and i was going to say goodbye to it when i bought a MKV. But after some time with them side by side i just liked the tone out of the 5:50 better. I tried everything on the MKV to get the tones i was getting out of the 5:50 and just couldn't get there. I find the 5:50 has a underlying warmth to it the the MKV is lacking. I even connected a 2x12 cab to the MKV and nadda. Changed tubes ....nothing. I find the 5:50 can generate 85-90% of the sounds out of the MKV. Now I'm not a gigging musician and I do see the benefits of the MKV if i were. The 3 channels/variac power/tweed mode/tube & diode rectification, and the list goes on. It is a very versatile amp indeed but in the end I did return it and stuck with the 5:50. I know that is blasphemy to some but my ears are the final decision maker.

What I found super interesting after doing a shootout between the MKV, the 525+, and the 550+ yesterday is the best crunch sound I could get was out of the 525(granted I might have to spend more time with the Mark). The 550 simply cannot pull out the same crunch sound, it's not half as vintage. I don't know what is the cause, the 6L6's? The V30 vs the Black Shadow?

But clean sound on the 550, WOW, Amazing!! It rivaled the cleans on the MKV. But for some reason the 525 couldn't come close to deliver the same pristine, chimey clean sound. What gives? Same possible reasons as before? Don't know...

Now I want the cleans out of the 550 and the crunch out of the 525. I have no idea what to do. Maybe I can dial in the right crunch out of the Mark V, then my problem would be solved.

Very interesting and thanks for posting. I agree w/you on the 5:25+ crunch. I was never able to get that kind of crunch out of my (previously owned) 5:50. FWIW, I sold my 5:50 to purchase a Road King II (v2) and missed the 5:50 from the day it left...I liked the 5:50 a lot better than the RK2. It really was a killer pedal platform. That being said, I really do prefer my 5:25+ over either of them. I run my 5:25+ along with a Fargen-modded Fender Princeton Reverb Reissue and a Dr. Z Maz Sr 2x12.

I would think the speaker has more to do with the vintage crunch than the tubes.IMO there is not a lot of difference in the distorted sound of the El34's to the 6l6's. I tried them both in my MKV and didn't notice a whole lot of difference in tone, there was however, a noticeable difference in the cleans. FWIW

 

[hendrik84]

So 6L6's + V30 = The cleans I want AND the crunch I want!?

So either get the 525 and change the tubes or get the 550 and change the speaker?