can i remove tubes from my triple rec to make it 100 watts

[theearthisourfeast]

Wondering if you can remove tubes in the triples to lower the wattage as you can on some of the others. If so which ones? I want to do this because a) my neighbor down the block told me today he could hear me playing and i had the master at maybe 9 o clock. I'd like to push it a little hotter without making anyone mad. b) i've been wanting to try out some el34s and a local guy on craigs list has 4 matched for cheap. they are ehx and i dont really want to buy the other two just to try them out.

 

[theearthisourfeast]

One other thing. I noticed that when buying ehx tubes they come in soft medium and hard. What does that mean and which would be correct for the triple rec? the #'s on the tubes are:
otk 2 and 0510
thanks for any help. still new to this and learning...

 

[TREC]

Hey there, I know what you are talking about as I have had a triple rec and have asked the same question. The consensus seems to be no, the manual mentions pulling tubes for the dual but not the triple. Some people do pull tubes in a triple, I have tried it and it sounds fine.
Have you tried running an OD pedal like a tube screamer or maxon od808? This will push the tubes a bit harder to give a more commpressed hotter, tighter sound at a lower volume
Check this link out
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t13386/#post105619

I ended up selling mine and buying a dual rec

I may not have helped much but I know where you are coming from. You can always ring Mesa to get it straight from the horses mouth.

Good luck

 

[mikey383]

You can do it, but there is a downside.

The thing about pulling tubes is that it ends up changing the output transformer impedance. With a Dual, it's a 1:2 ratio. Pulling 2 tubes doubles the impedance, which doubles the speaker tap impedance also. The 4 ohm tap becomes 8, 8 becomes 16.

With a Triple, it's more of a 1:3 ratio. Pulling 2 tubes would increase the OT impedance by 1/3. So the speaker taps would change by that same ratio. The 4 ohm tap would become 5.33 ohms, 8 would become 10.67. That means you will have a mismatched speaker load with any speaker.

It's not a huge problem, but would cause the tubes to wear faster.

 

[theearthisourfeast]

So that all makes sense to me, however I was under the impression that it's ok to run a higher impedance cab out of the lower output on the amp. Say 8 ohms into a 16 ohm cab. So is there a difference in running a 8 ohm cab off a 5.33 ohm jack on the amp? or am i missing something?

 

[jdurso]

Wondering if you can remove tubes in the triples to lower the wattage as you can on some of the others. If so which ones? I want to do this because a) my neighbor down the block told me today he could hear me playing and i had the master at maybe 9 o clock. I'd like to push it a little hotter without making anyone mad. b) i've been wanting to try out some el34s and a local guy on craigs list has 4 matched for cheap. they are ehx and i dont really want to buy the other two just to try them out.

Aside from the impedance mismatch, you're not really going to get what your looking for. The jump from 100 watts to 150 watts, doesn't translate to much in terms of volume difference. What it does do is give you more headroom in the higher wattage amp which is more a tonal characteristic than how loud the amp is. Generally the sweet spot will be a touch louder in the triple but not much... again the main difference is in the tone. So while you could pull the tubes, it really wont give you the effect your after and to be quite honest whether your running a 100 watt or 150 watt amp, those amps need to be turned up to hit their sweet spot. So your neighbor will hear you down the block whether you have a dual or a triple.

Now to achieve the effect your after a much simpler and safer way is to either 1) use an OD or Boost pedal infront of the amp or 2) get an attenuator. The boost or OD will not add any more gain but instead get the preamp tubes closer to the compression you get at stage amp volumes. Doing this you may hear a slight just in volume but the whole point is to get the preamp tubes more compressed and that will allow you to get to the sweet spot at overall lower volumes. This will work much better than pulling tubes from your triple. Then there is the attenuator route which lets you blast your amp and basically get it to the sweet spot without the ear crushing volumes. You put it between the amp and the speaker cab and it will tame the volume while getting you a blasted tone... but beware it eats power tubes for breakfast so be prepaired to change your power tubes more oftern then your are used to.

 

[theearthisourfeast]

thanks a lot for the reply! exactly what i wanted to know! I have been using a boost though i'm not happy with it, saving for a 808 or ocd, and I had thoguht about an attenuator. Looks like the hotplate is the only one that can handle 150watts and those things are pretty steep. plus , i've heard they're not all there cracked up to be. Guess the neighbors will just have to deal with it!!

 

[JW123]

Ive played with pulled tubes in my Triple the last couple of years. As jurdoso says you arent going to see a significant volume drop. I currently have 4 Yellow Jackets in my triple, 4xEL84 tubes, this should have it in the 40-60 watt range, but its still a very loud amp.

Do you run your amp thru the loop? You can use the output level to bring the level way down while still running the gain and master at a higher setting. Ive found in my Mesas that the sound or tone is developed more in the Preamp section of the amp. Ive found some pretty good tones in the lower volume ranges with my amps. The problem is we all want the amp to blow our pants when we stand in front of it. Its too tempting with and amp of this size to not turn up, cause thats what they are meant to do.

Ive run EL 34s in mine, you probably arent going to see as big a tonal change as you want, especially if you are only running the master in the 9 oclock range. Changing the V-1 tube will do more to alter the tone and its a lot cheaper to do that.

 

[JW123]

I know it changes the impedence of the amps, but everyone makes too big a deal of that in my opinion. With 2 power tubes pulled Im still running out of the 8 ohm out to my 4x12 cab. It is something to be aware of, but these amps are a lot tougher than some folks want you to believe. I switch mine around when I make changes to see what sounds best, and so far knock on wood I havent done any damage to any of my amps. Ive been using Rectos since they first came out.

 

[theearthisourfeast]

what kind of change will changing v-1 do and what are good tubes for it? I've definately played with running through the loop and while it works ok when i have to play very low, i feel like it sounds so much better with the loop bypassed. But maybe it's just the fact that it's louder and blowing my pants off!! Anybody here have good experoence with attenuators? thanks a lot for all the replies.

 

[jdurso]

what kind of change will changing v-1 do and what are good tubes for it? I've definately played with running through the loop and while it works ok when i have to play very low, i feel like it sounds so much better with the loop bypassed. But maybe it's just the fact that it's louder and blowing my pants off!! Anybody here have good experoence with attenuators? thanks a lot for all the replies.

You're going to want to look for something with less headroom, meaning it will breakup and compress sooner. I highly recommend an RTF ECC83... very aggressive sounding, low breakup point, very sweet highs.

 

[theearthisourfeast]

so i just got home from picking up a tubescreamer modded by analogman i found locally for less than half of what it's worth used. I was saving for the maxon or ocd but couldnt pass this up. I have to say, this thing blew me the hell away! The other clean boosts i was using seem like nothing compared to this one. Between that and the new SG i am in sonic heaven for the moment, EXCEPT!!! i just realized there is a staticy hum present on channel 2 and 3. channel 1 is clean and quiet. i pulled the OD pedal out just to make sure but it's definately in the amp. The OD does however make it much louder. I guess i've noticed the noise beofre but just chalked it up to being a tube amp and having it turned up a bit. Tonight, being as it's 1 am and the wife and kid are asleep, i had it as low as possible to still hear it and realized that it's actually pretty substantial. also, tried using the effects loop for a minute to have more volume control and this seemed to really make it sound like ****. So whats up? Do i need new tubes? I still know very little about tube amps but since it's being magnified by the tubescreamer i would have to guess it's a preamp tube but again, i dont know what i'm doing!! Any help ( i know, again!) would be most appreciatted and invaluable. cheers!

 

[JW123]

I have a Weber Mass that I use some. The only problem from what you are saying about your amp si if its making noise at the volumes you are playing at when you crank it down with an attenuator the noise will be louder than the amp sound. Does that make sense?

You need to post what kind of sounds you are after. Jdurso is very good at helping people get the sounds they want out of a Roadster. Ive read a lot of his and its helped me a bunch with my amp.

I think we all have the perception that we have to move a bunch of air for our tone. Like I said before I use the output and solo functions on my Roadster and Triple and have been able to get some really great tones at lower levels and then I just use the solo to make my solos have a little more presence.

My Roadster has a noise it it. It is the fan, my Triple doesnt have a fan. I dont understand the noise in a clean channel, my amps all get noisy when I start diming my gains. Personally I run my gains in the 12 oclock to 2 oclock range on most of my channels, anything higher and they get noisy. I play in a cover band 2-4 times a month and we play everything from 70s classic guitar rock up to 90s alt rock. I may play Honky Tonk Women and then go to Enter Sandman, which require totally different textures. The only channle that I dime on the gain is Channel 2 in Brit mode, it just gets that AC/DC Dirty Deeds tone all day long, punch it with a tube screamer and its sweet. But 80% of the time I play on channel 3 in vintage mode. I guess you call that the Recto sound that you hear all over the radio.

Good Luck, for the price I wouldnt recomend and attenuator, You can dial the volume down with the output as easily as using a 2-400 dollar attenuator. Just my 2 cents.

 

[jdurso]

so i just got home from picking up a tubescreamer modded by analogman i found locally for less than half of what it's worth used. I was saving for the maxon or ocd but couldnt pass this up. I have to say, this thing blew me the hell away! The other clean boosts i was using seem like nothing compared to this one. Between that and the new SG i am in sonic heaven for the moment, EXCEPT!!! i just realized there is a staticy hum present on channel 2 and 3. channel 1 is clean and quiet. i pulled the OD pedal out just to make sure but it's definately in the amp. The OD does however make it much louder. I guess i've noticed the noise beofre but just chalked it up to being a tube amp and having it turned up a bit. Tonight, being as it's 1 am and the wife and kid are asleep, i had it as low as possible to still hear it and realized that it's actually pretty substantial. also, tried using the effects loop for a minute to have more volume control and this seemed to really make it sound like sh!t. So whats up? Do i need new tubes? I still know very little about tube amps but since it's being magnified by the tubescreamer i would have to guess it's a preamp tube but again, i dont know what i'm doing!! Any help ( i know, again!) would be most appreciatted and invaluable. cheers!

get a noise gate and put it right before the amp. i had the same issue too because the roadster is a super quiet amp but when i boost it the noise level increases no matter how low i go. A noise gate used properly will solve that in an instant. I'd try either the boss ns-2 and put the od in the loop of the ns-2 or a isp decimater which is one of the best noise gates around and can be had used for under $100.

 

[jdurso]

I have a Weber Mass that I use some. The only problem from what you are saying about your amp si if its making noise at the volumes you are playing at when you crank it down with an attenuator the noise will be louder than the amp sound. Does that make sense?

You need to post what kind of sounds you are after. Jdurso is very good at helping people get the sounds they want out of a Roadster. Ive read a lot of his and its helped me a bunch with my amp.

I think we all have the perception that we have to move a bunch of air for our tone. Like I said before I use the output and solo functions on my Roadster and Triple and have been able to get some really great tones at lower levels and then I just use the solo to make my solos have a little more presence.

My Roadster has a noise it it. It is the fan, my Triple doesnt have a fan. I dont understand the noise in a clean channel, my amps all get noisy when I start diming my gains. Personally I run my gains in the 12 oclock to 2 oclock range on most of my channels, anything higher and they get noisy. I play in a cover band 2-4 times a month and we play everything from 70s classic guitar rock up to 90s alt rock. I may play Honky Tonk Women and then go to Enter Sandman, which require totally different textures. The only channle that I dime on the gain is Channel 2 in Brit mode, it just gets that AC/DC Dirty Deeds tone all day long, punch it with a tube screamer and its sweet. But 80% of the time I play on channel 3 in vintage mode. I guess you call that the Recto sound that you hear all over the radio.

Good Luck, for the price I wouldnt recomend and attenuator, You can dial the volume down with the output as easily as using a 2-400 dollar attenuator. Just my 2 cents.

Your roadster has a fan? Did you install it? because every Roadster i have played does not have a fan and quite frankly the Roadster is the quietest of all the Rectos i've played hands down. If you have an excessive amount of noise i'd say its a preamp tube on its way out.

 

[theearthisourfeast]

jdurso:
for the v1 do you mean something like this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-Tube-ECC83-12AX7-RTF-Germany-1970s-Tested_W0QQitemZ160343662616QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item25553a2018&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

Also, out of curiosity, when you are checking the pre amp tubes can any old 12ax7 be swapped in to check for bad tubes or must they be within certain specs?

 

[theearthisourfeast]

I got a TS9dx modified by analog man for $50 used a week or so ago. I'm not sure if it's quite the same, but it sure sounds good. Is there a big difference between these and the fulltone/maxon?

 

[theearthisourfeast]

So i borrowed a NS2 noise gate and that seemed to take care of the hum issues and then some! Thanks for the advise! Also been playing around with the loop settings and tonight I finally nailed something close to what I'm after. With the master at noon, ch 3 modern, and the set up in my sig I am getting some amazing sounds out of it now, even at really low volumes. Again thanks for the advise! I still have some dialing in to do for the other channels, and a little fine tuning on ch 3 but once i hit the sweet spot i found today i got lost playing for 3 hours!! I always hear that these amps are really hard to get dialed in. Myself i've found that with a halfway decent ear (subjective) it's pretty easy to get good sounds out of it. With some tweaking and good advise this thing is freakin amazing!! So the one thing left is to dial out the fizz. I'm running the SG with 490's, tubescreamer, boss multi effects set to clean boost OD and EQ cutting the mids a bit. TR settings are ch 3 modern, tubes, spongy,6l6, bass 11:30 treble 1:00 gain 10:30 mids 11:00 presence 10:30 master 12:00 output 9:00-10:00 with loop on through an ampeg 4x12 and a marshall 4x10. I was playing with the presence and mids on the amp at 0 and the gain at about 1:00 but ended up with the above settings making me pretty happy. There is just a tad too much fizz but backing down the gain didn't get rid of it all and I don't really want to back it off any more. How can i remove the fizz and maybe tighten the low end (especially palm mutes on the low E) up???

 

[Rane]

So i borrowed a NS2 noise gate and that seemed to take care of the hum issues and then some! Thanks for the advise! Also been playing around with the loop settings and tonight I finally nailed something close to what I'm after. With the master at noon, ch 3 modern, and the set up in my sig I am getting some amazing sounds out of it now, even at really low volumes. Again thanks for the advise! I still have some dialing in to do for the other channels, and a little fine tuning on ch 3 but once i hit the sweet spot i found today i got lost playing for 3 hours!! I always hear that these amps are really hard to get dialed in. Myself i've found that with a halfway decent ear (subjective) it's pretty easy to get good sounds out of it. With some tweaking and good advise this thing is freakin amazing!! So the one thing left is to dial out the fizz. I'm running the SG with 490's, tubescreamer, boss multi effects set to clean boost OD and EQ cutting the mids a bit. TR settings are ch 3 modern, tubes, spongy,6l6, bass 11:30 treble 1:00 gain 10:30 mids 11:00 presence 10:30 master 12:00 output 9:00-10:00 with loop on through an ampeg 4x12 and a marshall 4x10. I was playing with the presence and mids on the amp at 0 and the gain at about 1:00 but ended up with the above settings making me pretty happy. There is just a tad too much fizz but backing down the gain didn't get rid of it all and I don't really want to back it off any more. How can i remove the fizz and maybe tighten the low end (especially palm mutes on the low E) up???

Get a parametric EQ. Presonus makes one that's pretty good, from what I hear. I think if you EQ out some of the very high frequencies, the fizz will leave with it. Also, a parametric EQ is pretty much the most versatile type of EQ you can get, so it will help with detailed tone shaping, if you want it.

Usually, they say the tubescreamer or other such overdrive will tighten up the low end... You might try EQ'ing, more gain or even volume (with attenuation). On that subject, I've hear good things about the "Ultimate Attenuator" ... apparently unrivaled in its ability to effectively drop volume with loss of tone. It's massively expensive, though.


There are always too many options an they all seem to require more money. :lol:


Here are a few links:


http://www.astralsound.com/parametric_eq.htm

http://www.recordingreview.com/articles/articles/185/1/Getting-Started-With-Parametric-EQ/Page1.html

http://www.ultimateattenuator.com/

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/...ct/Magus+Innovations/Ultimate+Attenuator/10/1

 

[GD_NC]

I've seen quite a few questions on the board lately discussing wattage vs. volume. (i.e. pullling tubes in hopes of lowering the volume) Volume is not that closely related to your amplifier's wattage rating. Speaker quantity (i.e. 1x12, 2x12, 4x12) and speaker efficiency (SPL rating) have a much more dramatic impact on volume.

I just ran across a really good article that explains the basics. I thought it might be a good reference.

http://www.ratcliffe.co.za/articles/guitar_amp_power.shtml