Calling all tube/tone /amp general experts...!!

[darth beans]

Allrighty...I'll try to make a long story short... After trying out an invader 150 through an engl cab(with vintage greenbacks) a while back I decided to get the 100 version. I'm still gassing for a mark5 and an engl steve morse to. I love this amp.....awesome clean channel,channel 2 is like a smoother beefier marshall,channels 3 and 4 killer solo channels. Got said invader 100 off of ebay. Used/mint....unfortunately it had been retubed with JJ's all the way through. I have tried some different pre tubes...EH,ruby,gt,some nos,tung sol...etc. I'm no expert but I have learned a lot from what I have read here and experimenting.

So My problem is this...I cant seem to get rid of the spikey harsh tone.Just not as smooth as the 150(which had stock rebranded sovtek's). It's not my guitar,I have a good cab...I was missing some gain and noticed a lot of the eq sweep was gone. I fixed this by changing out the jj's. I still am missing some gain and am not digging the tone. Channels 3 and 4 eeehh. I need some suggestions for power amp tubes.

I am considering tung sol el34b,sed winged c's,Sveltana el34's and have heard good things about the new ruby's (i know they are chinese! lol). Gimme your insights please!!!! also what about 6ca7 tubes?? I heard they have higher output. will this give me more volume and distortion or more headroom??? I don't want early distortion but I think the amp is running to clean...I thought maybe it's biased cold?? what can you tell me about plate voltage??? ma ratings...this is where i get lost a little.The 150 and 100 watt versions are the same by the way.Engl states the 100 is voiced more open and less compressed....

onto the next order of business...nos preamp tubes.I have read alot. I came upon a nos unused Icc 12ax7 usa made...who knows when(early 70's my guess) said tube sounded similar to a reissue tung sol but LOUDER,fuller and warmer...I was like whoa. So that got me started on my journey....just have to do some research before I spend money cause...I aint got a lot!!! I have read much here and thanks to your insights am considering...
Telefunken....what can you say about the smooth versus ribbed plate?
Sylvania,long grey plate. What can you guys tell me about the rebranded Baldwin/sylvania's?? they are long grey plates. I noticed some 12au7's had the black plate. Is there a difference between the grey and black plates??
Sylvania/rebranded JAN...any insight??
Amperex bugle boy...can't wait to try one!
tesla ecc83
Just to add my V1 is input and 2nd stage,V2 is lead driver and 3rd stage,V3 is fx buffer and pa driver and V4 is phase shift converter. I know a little lol and putting in a ruby in 3 and an eh in 4 goes against what I've heard but...If I put in a cleaner tube like a tsol or the icc...it takes some of the saturation away and seems to punctuate that tinny sound. I believe this is because im not getting enough power tube distortion...when I get new power tubes i imagine this will change and I will probably want something less high gain in these slots...sound right??? although that ruby in 3 makes my mxr 10 band kill. hopefully I won't need it soon...
Sorry for the long post lol I appreciate all of your insights in advance!!! and look forward to hearing from you guys on this board(especially Timbrewolf).Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Let me add one more thing I tried the head through a few different cabs and still wasn't happy...so I can't say for sure it was the 1300 dollar engl cab but.....

 

[darth beans]

Let me add...lol. I can't say the invader relies soley on preamp distortion. If this was the case why only have 4 preamp tubes?? one which shares the clean/input stage. I love the clean sound...don't want to lose it. Right now I have a gtecc83 in v1 which i like...warmer,decent saturation good mids...not as clean as the tung sol or as bright as the EH but it's the best I can do for now.The amp is being powered by JJ el34l's. Supposedly they have more headroom and are supposed to run cleaner...oddly enough on the tubes it says el34 but on the boxes it says el34l....any insight??? I have had the thing cranked also...didn't smooth it out. When I tried the 150 I had the channel volume at 12:00 and the master at 9:00....SCREAMIN!!!

 

[212Mavguy]

Whoa......slow down and ask like one or maybe two questions at a time. Yer flooding the zone with so many questions in the same post, it creates an ordeal to answer them all. Notice the long line of folks that can't wait to reply? :wink:

Don't worry about power tube distortion/saturation, that won't happen until you get to near ear bleed volumes in a 100 watt amp. 50 watt and higher amps get the distortion from the preamp at small-medium club levels. That's a byproduct of being overpowered for the venue.

E34l tubes should say that on the bottle.

Does your engl have a bias adjustment? if so, get it set to around 60-65% max dissipation rating for your el34's, that sweet spot will warm up things with still great crunch. Power tubes biased too cold will get ugly sounding crossover distortion.

As far as vintage tubes go for the preamp, NOS is not the way to go for less spiky tones in the higher gain channels. The circuit will give all the gain you want. A well used vintage old stock (VOS) is what will get rid of some of the spikyness. New vintage tubes are much brignter on top than well used vintage tubes. I have had excellent results reducing excess fizz and/or spikyness using well used old Westinghouse yellow label short grayplate vintage tubes that tested low in the good zone that were well hammered, they are fat in the bottom and lower mids and smooooooth on top. Run the bass knob down a bit. Westinghouse never made their own tubes BTW...Run the gain knob a notch higher than a new tube. The ones I am talking about have short gray plates similar in shape to vintage RCA shortplate 12ax7a's, grids parallell to the plates. Some Westies have short grayplates that look like a short grayplate Sylvania 12ax7, grids at a right angle to the plate, a fairly rare tube. You occasionally see both types on ebay, with the RCA looking type more common. Expect a turdlet or two to get the golden sounding ones. That's part of the current ebay package.

When I revoiced a buddy's Crate Blue Voodoo with the Westie he could not stop grinning, it was **** nasty beforehand. Also gave a tip or two on tone knob twisting for stage level VS bedroom volume levels. As far as your vintage tubes you mentioned, you left out vintage Tung Sol 12ax7. I can't BELIEVE how many people have fallen for the "reissue" line when the new production tube bears ZERO resemblance to the forebear in design and sound. A well used one will give wonderful sound in the lead channels, but not in a combo amp, you might have to wrap the upper 2/3 of the bottle with 2 layers of 1 inch heatshrink to tame the microphonics some even in a head. Gets better at taming microphonics as the tube heats up and softens the heatshrink to a more rubbery texture, will get hotter still if you can fit it under the shield. Shield not absolutely necessary, cause the heatshrink has a shielding tendency. Again, robust bottom and mids, with a rolled off smooth top. BTW, the recommended tubes are among the more inexpensive vintage tubes gotten on ebay. Dat's all for now. Plenty of homework here. Peace.