Anyone think a Stiletto Ace can't do JCM 800? (With clips)

[primal]

I own both and I recorded them the other day.

Posted the links on the Axe FX forum in a blind amp shoutout. Stiletto Ace won 8-2, with 2 picking no preference.

During the poll people not only did not know which amp was which, they did not know what the two amps were.

Ace on Crunch Channel
https://soundcloud.com/sarge117/ampa

JCM 800 2204
https://soundcloud.com/sarge117/ampb

People who say the Ace is too bright must also think the 2204 is too bright. Cause mine is certainly just as bright as the ace if not brighter.
I think it has to do with the fact that for a Mesa Boogie, it is VERY bright. However, compared to an old school Marshall, it isn't any brighter. If Marshall made the Stiletto I think it would be there top of the line amp.

In the clips above the treble on the JCM 800 is completely off.

The treble on the ace was at 9:00

 

[bdubbs]

Sounds awesome man!

 

[Fenderflame]

Yup, Boogie wins again.

I had a 2x12 JCM900 and a 1X12 DSL401 back in the day always played them both with the treble turned off.

 

[primal]

Yup, Boogie wins again.

I had a 2x12 JCM900 and a 1X12 DSL401 back in the day always played them both with the treble turned off.

Yup.

treble and presence knobs are both completely off on the JCM 800

The crunch channel on the Ace is essentially a JCM 800, just not quite as bright as a jcm 800(go figure).

 

[Blaklynx]

A really good comparison. Both amps sound similar in their distortion characteristics however tonally there is a slight difference. The Mesa is slightly brighter and doesn't have as much bottom/low mid. Maybe it's the bottom/low mid that's causing it to sound slightly brighter and possibly a touch thinner. I think if you slightly up these lower frequencies the Mesa would be very close to the Marshall. As for the Marshall, it's not as bright as the Mesa on the top end.

I'd look at the EQ of both amps on a simple tone/spectrum analyser that you may have in your DAW. Compare the two and make adjustments to the EQ to get them close. I heard your comparison through a 2+1 speaker system (just a small sub for PC) and that's where I noticed the lower end of the Marshall.

In a nutshell:
-Marshall needs a bit of brightness (I like the lower end tone more)
-Mesa needs a bit more bottom

Very good shootout. Both amps sound great, regardless.

And ACDC rocks!

 

[primal]

A really good comparison. Both amps sound similar in their distortion characteristics however tonally there is a slight difference. The Mesa is slightly brighter and doesn't have as much bottom/low mid. Maybe it's the bottom/low mid that's causing it to sound slightly brighter and possibly a touch thinner. I think if you slightly up these lower frequencies the Mesa would be very close to the Marshall. As for the Marshall, it's not as bright as the Mesa on the top end.

I'd look at the EQ of both amps on a simple tone/spectrum analyser that you may have in your DAW. Compare the two and make adjustments to the EQ to get them close. I heard your comparison through a 2+1 speaker system (just a small sub for PC) and that's where I noticed the lower end of the Marshall.

In a nutshell:
-Marshall needs a bit of brightness (I like the lower end tone more)
-Mesa needs a bit more bottom

Very good shootout. Both amps sound great, regardless.

And ACDC rocks!

Interesting take.

I had to be quick when recording cause I wanted to record both amps cranked and didn't have the house to myself for too long.

So I set the mic on the cab, eq each amp to taste and then recorded. I did not go back and try to make them sound the same.

As far as the Ace being brighter, I only hear that in the upper mids, in a way I think might cut through the mix better.

The treble and presence on the JCM 800 in this recording where completely off. They get ice picky if you turn them up and the mid control really behaves like what I expect a treble knob to.

They where they were both around 9:00 on the ace.

If I turn the treble and presence off on this ace it sounds too dark.

I did hear the touch more low end in the JCM 800. I could eq the Ace to have that, though I think it would get washed out in the mix.

Like I said earlier, if Marshall invented the Stiletto, it would be there flagship amp.

 

[Old BF Shred]

Very, very close...
I also detect just a hint more low end and/or lower mids on the 800. But you really have to listen pretty close to tell.
And that is probably just from the tone control settings for each.

So would you say the Ace gives more range to the tone controls? Would hardly surprise me, being a Mesa.

Plus the Ace has multiple modes and therefore more tonal options, more versatile. And of course, killer cleans the Marshall can only wish for!
I saw a YouTube comparison between the Ace and a DSL 50w and they too were quite close.

I really like my Ace and believe it is, at least, somewhat better built than the Marshall.
I'm keeping mine!

Good job on the comparison!

Rock on!

 

[primal]

Very, very close...
I also detect just a hint more low end and/or lower mids on the 800. But you really have to listen pretty close to tell.
And that is probably just from the tone control settings for each.

So would you say the Ace gives more range to the tone controls? Would hardly surprise me, being a Mesa.

Plus the Ace has multiple modes and therefore more tonal options, more versatile. And of course, killer cleans the Marshall can only wish for!
I saw a YouTube comparison between the Ace and a DSL 50w and they too were quite close.

I really like my Ace and believe it is, at least, somewhat better built than the Marshall.
I'm keeping mine!

Good job on the comparison!

Rock on!

I think if I was trying to EQ them the same I probably could have gotten that touch more low end out of the Ace.

However the JCM 800 overall probably does have a touch more low end. Not to be confused with the low end you get with an Electra Dyne (God I miss that amp) or dual rec. But a touch more then the stiletto. But that is not what you buy these amps for anyway, and neither has enough low end to break through in a mix with bass.

The controls on the Ace are definitely more responsive then the JCM 800.

I would definitely say the ace does have a larger range of tones, even on the crunch channel alone. You start throwing in spongy, the different clean modes, tight gain, fluid drive, tube rectified vs diode. It's not close.

However, if we are being fair, the JCM 800 tone is iconic. The JCM 800 invented that tone (I guess really the JMP's did, but you know what I mean).

Build quality. That is hard to say. This is an old Marshall. I have had this thing for a couple years, crank it ALL the time. Not a problem in the world. This thing is a freaking tank.

While the Ace has nice build quality, there is a lot more plumbing that can get clogged. Already had to bring it to a tech for some bad FET's.

Was thinking I might sell the JCM 800 but started getting depressed just thinking about it. I love this amp.

But I am really liking the ace, and love the fact that it has no problem nailing the JCM 800 sound.

 

[YellowJacket]

That's scary close. I like the settings on the JCM 800 better tone wise but that boogie with that crunch AND that clean, that's one hell of an amp!!!!

 

[Blaklynx]

I think if I was trying to EQ them the same I probably could have gotten that touch more low end out of the Ace.

However the JCM 800 overall probably does have a touch more low end. Not to be confused with the low end you get with an Electra Dyne (God I miss that amp) or dual rec. But a touch more then the stiletto. But that is not what you buy these amps for anyway, and neither has enough low end to break through in a mix with bass.

The controls on the Ace are definitely more responsive then the JCM 800.

I would definitely say the ace does have a larger range of tones, even on the crunch channel alone. You start throwing in spongy, the different clean modes, tight gain, fluid drive, tube rectified vs diode. It's not close.

However, if we are being fair, the JCM 800 tone is iconic. The JCM 800 invented that tone (I guess really the JMP's did, but you know what I mean).

Build quality. That is hard to say. This is an old Marshall. I have had this thing for a couple years, crank it ALL the time. Not a problem in the world. This thing is a freaking tank.

While the Ace has nice build quality, there is a lot more plumbing that can get clogged. Already had to bring it to a tech for some bad FET's.

Was thinking I might sell the JCM 800 but started getting depressed just thinking about it. I love this amp.

But I am really liking the ace, and love the fact that it has no problem nailing the JCM 800 sound.

I have an original JCM800 100W 2ch combo. It was my first valve amp that I bought over 25yrs ago. I just can't sell it. It needs a complete retube and service and some TLC. I think every guitarist should own at least one JCM 800 at least once in their lives. There's beauty in it's simplicity and as you said, iconic tone.

 

[primal]

That's scary close. I like the settings on the JCM 800 better tone wise but that boogie with that crunch AND that clean, that's one hell of an amp!!!!

It's hard for me to say for certain which I like more. I have gone back and forth. I do think the upper mids of the Stiletto would come through in the mix better.

But the 800 does sound great.

I have an original JCM800 100W 2ch combo. It was my first valve amp that I bought over 25yrs ago. I just can't sell it. It needs a complete retube and service and some TLC. I think every guitarist should own at least one JCM 800 at least once in their lives. There's beauty in it's simplicity and as you said, iconic tone.

There is something to be said for pulling out the Les Paul, plugging into a JCM 800, and simply cranking it to drummer level.

 

[PMcC]

The mesa sounds better to me,....you did a great job recording,...the room sounds great on that AC track!

well done!

PMcC

 

[boardn10]

I thought the Stiletto was discontinued due to poor sales? I am shocked such poor sales. I have been looking to buy an authentic Marshall, but the Stiletto catches my eye and ear.

 

[elpingua]

Brilliant job. Sounds so thick and juicy!

 

[MarkV]

The Stiletto sounds awesome! I could never get into Marshall's (though a lot of the best rock was made with them). The presence of the Stiletto says it all.

 

[primal]

I have to say I am surprised how much I am enjoying this amp.

Funny story how I got it.

I was selling a guitar. A decent Gibson SG Standard. It was just collecting dust. I saw a guy offering a trade for a Stiletto. I figured I could probably get more selling the Stiletto then I could the SG so I offered a trade. He had already sold it though.

So I saw another guy selling a Stiletto Ace combo and offered him a trade and he accepted.

Figured I would play with it a month then sell it.

With all I read about how bright the Stiletto was I was not expecting much.

Then got it home and started playing it and realized my real JCM 800 was a tad brighter.

Over time I have really gravitated towards the old school Marshall tone. Tried the DSL and TSL and JVM and just not for me. Not the same as a JCM 800.

But the Ace...

The Crunch channel alone makes this amp worth the money.

It is more old school Marshall then the classic crunch channel on the new Marshall's. Plus it comes with the tight gain and fluid lead which are both modified Marshall tones.

I know I have said this multiple times, but it is worth repeating.

If Marshall made the Stiletto, IMO it would be there top selling amp.

The only reason it didn't work out for Mesa (even though it was in production for a good period of time) is people looking for Marshall tones will tend to go to Marshall.

If you want tones from Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, Van Halen to George Lynch, the Stiletto will slay it!

And you'll get a great clean channel on top of it!

 

[PMcC]

I have a 73' 50 watt Marshall,...utterly simple but just works, spot on for those tones. I remember playing through the Stiletto at Mesa Hollywood,...I kept saying "man this is a bright amp"
some Marshalls are like that,...they work great in a mix though. I just turned the presence and treble down on the Stiletto but remember it being a really fun amp to play.

Primal, did you use a room reverb or was that actually a room mic, whatever you used It sounds great man!

PMcC

 

[J.J]

Great comparison.

I prefer the Marshall, it just seems to have more soul and character. When listening to the clips I started off with a Mesa bias and didn't expect to like the Marshall better. I grew up I the 80's and didn't realise until much later that the 80's tone was heavily dependant on to the JCM800 and me.

I have a 2203 100watt JCM800 that I've owned for nearly half my life. It really never gets used, but I don't think I'll ever sell it. Might buy a Stiletto though great amp.

 

[primal]

Primal, did you use a room reverb or was that actually a room mic, whatever you used It sounds great man!

PMcC

It was miced with an SM57 into a presonus tube pre.

I added reverb using the built in Reaper plugin Reaverb.

I have gotten a lot of positive comments on the reverb which I though was funny since I myself wasn't crazy about the way the reverb sounded. I was temped to go back and add reverb with the Axe FX

 

[PMcC]

Primal, that was a nice slight ambient room verb,...worked great for the style.

good work!