Amp challenge mark iii+ v. dc-3 & f-30

[goodwill559]

I came home from work with enough energy to finally play some amps head to head.

The contenders:
mark iii head, built in Aug. 1985, sn 15574, iii+ mod by Mike B. July 2008, all mesa tubes

2 lopo line 1x12 large cabs, eminence man-o-wars

dc-3, early/mid 90's, stock, all jj tubed, mesa 3/4 cab, eminence delta pro 12a

f-30, built?, stock, all jj tubed, celestion vintage 30

lehle aby pedal

carvin ac120s power conditioner

Round 1
mark iii+ & lopo stack v. dc-3 & 3/4 back

mark iii+; more crunch, more punch, more bite, wide open sound but at the same time more in your face, incredible lead tone
dc-3; more bottom end, more chug, more compressed, somewhat tighter, good rhythm tone, but more mud, more mush, those jj's gotta go, maybe some tung-sol reissues or nos, or maybe an ev12l in the 3/4 back cab would help (one will be arriving from monsta tone shortly), but the dc-3 sounded as a mere padawon to the mark iii+'s sith lord attitude.

winner: mark iii

Round 2
mark iii+ & lopo stack v. f-30 combo & 3/4 back

f-30; a bit more attitude and high end than the dc-3 but still not as open as the mark iii, compressed not airy, more bite than the dc, less than the mark iii, great modern rhythm tone, but the hellacious tone came with the pedal switched to both amps at the same time-eargasm

winner: mark iii

OK, I was surprised and was even considering selling the mark iii recently. Up until today, the dc-3 was my favorite amp, but it's no contest. The mark iii hands down sounded the best. I know, I know, there is no best just different. Um, no. Not tonight. There was a best and that some b1tch mark iii was it.

The f-30 was my second fav, but I'm sure both the dc and f-30 will benefit from different pre-tubes. Those jj's just are too dull and lifeless. I tried some in the mark iii a couple weeks ago, and couldn't pull them out soon enough. The chinese tubes just sound so good in the mark iii.

Anyway, hope this was an enjoyable read. I wish I was a poet so I could do a better job trying to express in words the sounds I heard.

Future experiments: axe-fx re-amped into the mesas, swapping the eminence with the ev, swapping pre- tubes...

 

[Tuna141]

Nice review, thanks for posting.

Mark III's are killer amps for sure, and still a bargain at their current prices.

 

[rvschulz]

i ONCE made the mistake of selling my Mark III ... it took 9 weeks to remedy that situation. i have always been curious about the dc-3 and f-30 but my only 1x12 amp will be the Mark III ...

of course, i will probably never have more than 2 amps - and since i also have a LSC ... it's a moot point.

 

[phyrexia]

I knew the outcome to this before I read the thread

 

[edward]

I knew the outcome to this before I read the thread

LOL!!! ...me too

Of course all this is opinion, nevertheless, thanks for sharing yours. Good write up ...thanks for taking the time.

FWIW, I have never done a side-by-side with the Fs, but not having the GEQ really limits them, IMHO (no offense to F owners, of course, just MHO). And the Contour is, again, has such limited value ...frankly I hate that knob. It's kind of like a fixed "scoop" knob, ugh!

The DC 3 is something I have never had the pleasure of playing, so those 84s are not "in my ears" so to speak. But as an avid devotee of the DC 5 (and by association, the DC10), I can unequivocally say that it "can" sound dull with stock tubes. I swapped mine (all of em, with lots of experimentation, one by one) and it absolutely came to life! It is just so versatile an amp, with so many great tones it can cover, it remains my #1 live-play amp.

That said, I agree wholeheartedly about your MKIII description. "In your face" is the first thing I said to myself when I finally got my Simul Greenie dialed in with tubes and settings. Wow!! Versatile, yes, but with such attitude, in the best way of course. One thing, though: I get plenty of tight, solid bottom end from mine, considerably more than the DC5. Perhaps yours having less has more to do with cab than the amp. As a side note, I was initially thinking of just turning my III head around when I first got it. Now, no way. When lots of gear has made their way out my door over the decades, this DC5 and MKIII have earned their "keeper" status ...love them both for different reasons, like apples and bananas. Just great, solid tone machines that deliver so much! ...ahem, IMHO.

Edward

 

[lockbody]

Why not put all amps through the same cab?

 

[CoG]

I am a big MkIII fan but that cab setup is hardly fair either :lol:

 

[goodwill559]

Why not put all amps through the same cab?

That's a great idea and would make a truer comparrison, but would require a speaker level switcher and dummy load to do the a/b/y sound test, which I don't have. Alternately, I could flip the standby switch, unplug, swap, replug, flip the standby switch, ad infinitum. Certainly possible, but the tedious nature of that method is not very compelling.

That being said, I must admit I was wrong about the jj tubes being responsible for the mudiness or mushiness of the dc-3 and f-30.

Update

This morning, I paired the mark iii with the mesa 3/4 cab eminence delta pro 12A loaded, and paired the dc-3 with the lopo stack, eminence man-o-war loaded. Truly a "d'oh" moment.

The dc-3 no longer sounded dull and lifeless. The crunch and juicyness I was used to was back. Lots of grind and that el84 chime was there too. This was my main setup for a while and I heard again why I like the dc-3 so much.

The mark iii through the delta pro 12a was noticeably darker. In fact, I could dime the presence without earbleeding consequences. The presence knob was now useful throughout its entire full range--season to taste. A few adjustments later, I got the mark iii back into farmiliar fire breathing territory and switched back and forth between dc-3 and mark iii.

The mark iii still had more dynamic response and whereas I described the dc-3 yesterday as dull and lifeless, now it was lively.

It wasn't the tubes. It was the speakers. Of course speaker selection makes a HUGE difference in tone and regardless of hearing that over and over, experiencing it was that "D'oh!" moment I mentioned earlier.

So the Mark iii is still the most versatile, covers the widest tonal range, has the most dynamic range, has great attitude and bite, and an incredible lead tone. It was flexible enough to be paired with either the man-o-war or the dela pro 12A, and is justifiably a classic, highly regarded amp. And as someone else mentioned, a great buy.

The DC-3 has a beautiful crunchy, searing, more modern metal rhythm tone, although not as dynamic or wide open as the Mark III. It sounds great with the man-o-war but doesn't play well with the delta pro12A, and didn't have enough top end to compensate for the darker speaker.

I love my Mesas!

 

[mesa verde]

That's a good comparison. Appreciated you took the time to post it.
Now that being said - the problem sometimes with these comparisons
or reviews is that they are not done in the context of playing in a live
band scenario. They are done at home settings where the differences
(and subtle nuances) may or may not make any difference in live playing
and in fact what you might think is a liability may prove to be a strength,

I remember the first time I played through Greenbacks and thought to
mysele "****! these things sound terrible, all this throaty breakup
and bright top end.. etc and etc.."
But when I actually cranked up the 4x12 (Mesa Mark III head driving it)
in band practice it all came together. When I stepped back from the
cab (I kept playing with 25 foot cable and just kept moving back from
the cab while we played) it sat in the mix perfectly and all that Greenback
type sound just swirled around and crunched all around. Perfect.
Was it the amp ? sure. Was it the cab and speakers ? Sure.
Was it the guitar (Fender Big Apple Strat) sure.. and maybe a little
to do with the player too (me). But to me a person must qualify what
context the 'tone reports' are done in. Playing at home by yourself,
or cranking it up and how it all sounds with a live band.
Many times there is a huge difference in how you perceive things
playing at home alone and cranking up in a band at the club or practice.

 

[goodwill559]

mesa verde, I gotta agree with you 100%. Context is extremely important to perception, just as action is meaningless without intention.

What's the best tool, a hammer or a screwdriver? Of course, it depends on the job!

For the best success, use the right tools for the job.

This was, by the way, one of those cranking it at home alone, with no band, no backing tracks, just guitar.

I'm glad I could share.

 

[mesa verde]

mesa verde, I gotta agree with you 100%. Context is extremely important to perception, just as action is meaningless without intention.

What's the best tool, a hammer or a screwdriver? Of course, it depends on the job!

For the best success, use the right tools for the job.

This was, by the way, one of those cranking it at home alone, with no band, no backing tracks, just guitar.

I'm glad I could share.

Yeah - thanks again for that review and letting me know that you played them cranked up and rockin out. Makes a difference. And you know what... I tend to keep both a hammer and a screwdriver in my toolbox. Just in case I need to cut something <!> heh.

 

[guitarsawicki]

I have tested F30 and DC3 amps. I was looking for a backup amp for my Mark III. F30 and DC3 were good but I choosed Sundown A50. I liked very much high gain settings of DC3 combo with EV Thiele.

 

[sstan]

Mesa verde, 100% ok with you...

My tone is terrific with my sg std thru an f30+2X12 recto, but with my band, I have to play with mt tele/vanzandt, to keep bass frequencies for the bass...

All tests must be kept for what they are, usefull to get ideas of the different sounds possible with a certain gear, butmost of time, the reality of the stage gives surprising feelings.

anyway, I always think that the contour switch is frustrating, I can't wait trying a dc3 with my band, to enjoy different voicings...

Yes the equal can do a lot, but the magic knob must be fantastic...
Thanks for the fight anyway.



ps Xcuse my grammar, I'm french...

 

[rscott24]

Wow glad to see the Mark III winning battles as a new owner myself lol