2ch.recto vs. 3ch.recto...mesa boogie responds!!!

[playdosboogies]

Hey Tim.
Most of what you hear about the 2 channel rectos sounding better is myth. When we went from the 2 ch to 3 ch rectos back in 1999/2000 we simultaneously changed our 6L6 tube supplier, switching from a chineese tube to a softer, darker russian tube because of reliability issues we were having with the chineese tubes. Most guys thought the 3 channel recto's sounded a little looser and "flubbier" but unfortunately that was only due to the new russian tube we started using. Unfortunately, it was percieved by the public that the 3 channel sounded inferior to the 2 channel...anyway, since then, we are now using an updated chineese 6L6 again, and the 3 channels now sound like the old 2 channels used to. If you take the blindfold test, you'll see that although they may dial in a hair different; with the identical tubes installed the 2 and 3 channel rectos sound the same. The transformers are the same, the circuit is the same, the only thing that changed were the tubes. (and of course the revoiced clean channel on the 3 channel rectos, which is much better than the clean on the 2 channels...)
Hope this helps....

Jay Hood
Mesa/Boogie Hollywood
7426 Sunset Blvd.
Hollywood, CA 90046
Tel: 323-883-9090
Fax: 323-883-9099

 

[Johnson]

Thats really interesting thanks for posting it! The skeptic in me wonders if Mesa is just saying that to get people to buy their newest model...but who knows.

 

[Kung-Fool]

That's their standard response.

I've owned a 3ch.(with the good tubes) and currently own a 92' and a 94' 2 ch. and they absolutely do not sound the same to me. I've yet to hear anybody who has done an a/b comparison say they sound the same.

 

[clutch71]

From May 14, 2005...

Greetings,

Thanks for your email. There is this myth that the 2 Chan sounds better than the 3 Chan and the reality is that any tones that can be achieved on the 2 Chan can also be achieved on the 3 Chan. The controls will not reflect the same settings but sonically they can near exact. If you have further questions please feel free to give us a call.

Thanks
Kris Dilbeck
Product Specialist/Customer Service
Mesa Boogie Ltd.

My Question that prompted the response...
In the process I have come across the fabled argument “the 2 ch have a better tone than the 3ch.” Before you close this e-mail and delete it please read on. I have recently test drove SN#R00822 and loved its tone. I play mostly in the modern mode and this is the saturation I’ve been looking for as long as I’ve played. Sadly my wife has declined the purchase and I am forced to save money to buy an amp down the road. That means 6 months from now I will be in the market!

My questions are…can you determine the rev # by the serial #? Is the rev# a factor? Can the average person tell the difference? Reading the owners manual to the 3ch Dual I noticed that channel 2 Vintage was voiced to the “original” vintage channel in the Duals and channel 3 is voiced to the “original” modern in the Duals. Does this mean that by following this advice I can create the tones of the old two channels by tweaking the settings?

 

[Platypus]

It kind of pisses me off a bit that Mesa lies to their customers.. I was told some downright bullshit when I asked about the differences between the Mark IV A and the B models... stuff I've seen with my own eyes to be false based on gut shots of both models.

I can understand their reasoning behind it (mainly because they want to sell you on the new model instead of you going to the used market) but it's kind of insulting and it rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Elpelotero]

I'm willing to bet money only a handful of employees are privileged enough to know the information we have stored on this message board.

Those would of course be Mike B, Randall Smith, George M., and a few others. New employees probably get the same responses we get.

 

[Platypus]

I'm willing to bet money only a handful of employees are privileged enough to know the information we have stored on this message board.

Those would of course be Mike B, Randall Smith, George M., and a few others. New employees probably get the same responses we get.

Without mentioning names, the information that I received when I asked numerous questions much like the one the OP asked was given to me by people 'in the know.'

Mesa is worried about hurting the reputation of their current model amps, plain and simple.

 

[Elpelotero]

I'm willing to bet money only a handful of employees are privileged enough to know the information we have stored on this message board.

Those would of course be Mike B, Randall Smith, George M., and a few others. New employees probably get the same responses we get.

Without mentioning names, the information that I received when I asked numerous questions much like the one the OP asked was given to me by people 'in the know.'

Mesa is worried about hurting the reputation of their current model amps, plain and simple.

no doubt. it's those in the know giving out the commands. They put the blinders on the horses so they don't stray from the path.

 

[Kung-Fool]

You know, I wish the 3ch. sounded the same as the 2ch. because I prefer the options it has. I'd sell both my 2ch. in a heartbeat if that were the case.

 

[Boogiebabies]

I'm willing to bet money only a handful of employees are privileged enough to know the information we have stored on this message board.

Those would of course be Mike B, Randall Smith, George M., and a few others. New employees probably get the same responses we get.

Without mentioning names, the information that I received when I asked numerous questions much like the one the OP asked was given to me by people 'in the know.'

Mesa is worried about hurting the reputation of their current model amps, plain and simple.

That's because they have more problems than a 77 Ford Pinto. In the biz it's called damage control. From CS to us, it's propoganda.

 

[Boogiebabies]

I'm willing to bet money only a handful of employees are privileged enough to know the information we have stored on this message board.

Those would of course be Mike B, Randall Smith, George M., and a few others. New employees probably get the same responses we get.

I don't know of any amp company that would get as many plugs and still dislike someone.
They are good people regardless of what gets spread around here. The place is run by Jim Aschow an he should be a patron saint.

 

[Elpelotero]

I'm willing to bet money only a handful of employees are privileged enough to know the information we have stored on this message board.

Those would of course be Mike B, Randall Smith, George M., and a few others. New employees probably get the same responses we get.

I don't know of any amp company that would get as many plugs and still dislike someone.
They are good people regardless of what gets spread around here. The place is run by Jim Aschow an he should be a patron saint.

Very true. I never imagined I would be able to speak on the phone with the creator of the C+ about every little detail I could possibly think of. Each employee I've ever come into contact with has always been fantastic and gone beyond the expectations of what good customer service is. I do not blame them for keeping this thing about the 2ch vs. 3ch under control like they do. They have to look after el numero uno, which is their company, profits, and employees. The amps are still beastly good and selling off the shelves like hotcakes. The problem is we are a small community of geeks who have been bitten by the mesa boogie tone way too hard. Maybe we are the problem, and not them?? But I wouldn't have it any other way.

You know Randall is in the business for the passion, not the money. Why else would he slave for years and years over the Mark...and the Roadking. He's a perfectionist, which is a good thing for us. I honestly believe he makes amps with the customer in mind. That explains all the top quality materials (such as the cabs). None of us will ever have the true explanation for the loss of mojo in the new DR's. Only he can answer that, but he never will.

Some people on this board seem to get too caught up into the littlest details of amps, even if they don't know what they're talking about. It's easy to get caught up into hoopla and want to feel like a part of it. It adds to the fun....BUT....I go by a golden rule I would recommend to everyone on this board--don't play it because of the details, because it's a rare piece. Play it because each note inspires you, makes you smile, and most importantly makes you write great music. (not to mention allows you to live the dream of being your favorite rock idol :twisted: )

Every time people ask about old rectifiers, or the C+, or a certain cabinet or speaker, I try to help them out because I know how it felt a few years ago being in those shoes. That's why I love this forum. Thanks to people like Boogiebabies and others, others and I have been able to learn great things about our favorite hobby. I hope nobody ever takes my recommendations negatively...As a guitar player and tone enthusiast, I know it sucks to get fed some B.S. about something you're spending lots of money on. Be it from guitar center, the guy on ebay, or unfortunately Mesa themselves. I had to take a loss of money on my 3ch when I sold it. I honestly would have never ordered it if it hadn't been for a Mesa employee I spoke to on the phone that said "they sound the same." So in a sense you can say I was one of the "suckers." I'm here to make sure nobody else gets "suckered" into spending their hard earned cash like I did, only to find a couple of months later that they are not satisfied. If a few people on this board can listen to the advice the experienced members can give them, then this forum has served its purpose. In the end, I can only hope to prod Randall Smith into hearing our petty complaints enough so that he doesn't become another Marshall. I would hate to see that happen to a great company and staff.

(too long of a post...not aimed at anyone specific, just a general rant)

 

[playdosboogies]

fwiw this is the e-mail that prompted the response.


Hello mesa folks.
I have a question that i hope you dont take as an insult, as i am a longtime customer, and current owner of 4 mesa amplifiers. my question concerns my dual rectifier (3ch) that i bought about 4 yrs. ago at buckdancers choice in portland maine. i have always heard that the older 2 channel duals have a "tighter" low end sound ,i.e. less flub. i also heard this was due to the older output tranformers .Is there an aftermarket ot that you could recommend that would give my dual rec. more of that "old school" dual rectifier "tightness". I am not too worried about voiding my warranty because my experience with you guys has proven that your products are "overbuilt". plus i only have 1 yr. left on it. any help would be greatly appreciated. thank you.
Tim