+1 for JAN GE 12AT7WC tubes....

[R_ADKINS80]

in the FX loop of a Recto! I always hated the sound of my amp when the loop was on. It took away a noticeable amount of high end and it was enough for me to say "screw it...I don't care how much I want to run a little delay because this loop sounds like sh|t!" I tried a half dozen or more modern tubes with no luck. I been talkin with Shredd about going NOS and I found a quartet of these on Ebay for $12 BIN with free shipping and he said it was a smokin deal on great tubes. I like the tone so much that I just bought another quartet of these babies to share with my bud that has a Triple Rec as well. These kick serious A$$ in the loop. If you hate the tone with the loop on then I highly recomend you slap one of these in you FX driver slot!

THANKS SHREDD!!!!!!!! Can't wait to get that RFT, Matsushita and =C= Rectifer tubes you sent me!!

 

[TFridgen]

Are these the same or similar to the JAN PHILIPS 12at7wc?

 

[R_ADKINS80]

dunno.....I haven't seen or heard the Phillips version.

 

[212Mavguy]

The JAN Philips are done on Sylvania tooling and more resemble Sylvania than GE. I recently got a smoking deal on ten GE 12at7wa. Don't have any of those so it will be fun when they arrive. If they are anything like the 5751 GE's I have they will be wonderful. Have noticed that I can still get plenty of gain from 12at7's in the circuits of the amps I am using, especially after they have had ten minutes or so in circuit, the tones are wonderful sounding. I remember when 5751's were inexpensive, and 12at7's still are sometimes unless you are looking at siemens ecc801s, Philips 6201, and sometimes Mullard cv4024.

 

[nwoforlif]

Do these GE 12AT7 tubes look somewhat like a rft 12ax7 in plate structure? I have looked at some dealers and their pictures tell me that.

NWOFORLIF

 

[212Mavguy]

Yep, they do, similar in shape. I call those yin/yang plates, although I have seen them described as "wing" plates, as in aircraft wing. Speaking of GE 12at7 type military triple mica 6201's, (these are actually 12at7wa's) just got the ten of mine in, 3 blackplate, 7 grayplate, all triple mica, they were all used, two of the grayplate units did not test up to par in my Hickok Cardmatic on one triode so I trashed those. Will run the rest one at a time in my Frank-en-Champ tomorrow night. If their basic tone is like their 5751's I'll be very pleased. Any noisy ones will get tossed tomorrow night. If I end up with only three decent ones I'd still be pleased, the price was so good, I'm confident that at least 6 out of the eight remaining ones will sound great.

Also have a pair of much more rare GE 6829's arriving soon, they have bigger plates, bigger bottle, triple mica, same pinout and gain as 12at7. They were out of a military radar system. have never heard them before in circuit.

 

[nwoforlif]

I just won some with red motorola branding for just a buck on fleabay. It has all the classic GE 12AT7 branding. That's why I asked you guys my previous question. The fool had it advertised as a 12ax7 so it did not sell well. They test good in my hickok 6000a for transconductance. Well over 3000 on both triodes. I have yet to try it in my dual rec. I haven't had time. I hope they are not noisy or microphonic in the amp. Then I'm only out $7. with shipping.

NWOFORLIF

Yep, they do, similar in shape. I call those yin/yang plates, although I have seen them described as "wing" plates, as in aircraft wing. Speaking of GE 12at7 type military triple mica 6201's, (these are actually 12at7wa's) just got the ten of mine in, 3 blackplate, 7 grayplate, all triple mica, they were all used, two of the grayplate units did not test up to par in my Hickok Cardmatic on one triode so I trashed those. Will run the rest one at a time in my Frank-en-Champ tomorrow night. If their basic tone is like their 5751's I'll be very pleased. Any noisy ones will get tossed tomorrow night. If I end up with only three decent ones I'd still be pleased, the price was so good, I'm confident that at least 6 out of the eight remaining ones will sound great.

Also have a pair of much more rare GE 6829's arriving soon, they have bigger plates, bigger bottle, triple mica, same pinout and gain as 12at7. They were out of a military radar system. have never heard them before in circuit.

 

[212Mavguy]

Be ready to be surprised...pleasantly.

I ran the eight GE 12at7wa's tonight, and three were blackplates. The tones were similar between gray and black plates, with the blackies having a bit more top end sparkle and chime, the grays had a bit more mids in my Frank-en-Champ. None were very microphonic at all, none were noisy either... Great sounding tubes! It is interesting how 12at7's price out, there is a lot of variance depending on the label. I have one of the spendy Euro Philips goldpin 12at7's and frankly the GE's for a fraction of the cost were every bit as good, there were similarities in the tone. My faves are still the Raytheon triple mica blackplate red print and the Mullard cv4024. For players who love the clean to slightly dirty tones the 12at7 is terrific in that application.

 

[nwoforlif]

Both tubes were good and clean. I was very surprised at how good they did sound in V4. It is staying in that slot for good.

NWOFORLIF

Be ready to be surprised...pleasantly.

I ran the eight GE 12at7wa's tonight, and three were blackplates. The tones were similar between gray and black plates, with the blackies having a bit more top end sparkle and chime, the grays had a bit more mids in my Frank-en-Champ. None were very microphonic at all, none were noisy either... Great sounding tubes! It is interesting how 12at7's price out, there is a lot of variance depending on the label. I have one of the spendy Euro Philips goldpin 12at7's and frankly the GE's for a fraction of the cost were every bit as good, there were similarities in the tone. My faves are still the Raytheon triple mica blackplate red print and the Mullard cv4024. For players who love the clean to slightly dirty tones the 12at7 is terrific in that application.

 

[stokes]

Not surprised that the AT7 sounds good in the effects loop,I suspect the different impedance of the AT7 would cause an improvement there.I have never liked the AT7 anywhere but the PI position,in V1 I always find them kind of dull,but if someone likes them in that position,thats great,because you can still get some very good NOS AT7's for dirt,compared to the prices the good AX7's and now the 5751's are going for.Only a few short years ago the 5751's could be had relatively cheap,curse the guy who let the SRV connection to the 5751 out of the bag!!!I also have never found a noisy or microphonic AT7,always assumed it was the lower gain/impedance thing,but it is probably more due to the fact that I never use them in a "gain" position,like V1.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

curse the guy who let the SRV connection to the 5751 out of the bag!!!

Just what do you know about that SRV Internet rumor? I've asked and asked and asked for original source, and no one can provide it. What I want to know comes down to three simple questions:
1. What amp?
2. What position in that amp?
3. What 5751?

Any specifics would be appreciated!

- Thom

 

[stokes]

Okay,I first heard about it in an interview I read somewhere,not on the internet,a long time ago,mid to late 80's I think,but before I knew anything about the internet,with Ceasar Diaz.IIRC it was his Vibrolux,input triode,but he did talk about a number of amps in the article.Which 5751?Thats asking too much,at my age I'm lucky I remember....I forget what it is I'm lucky to remember.Before reading that,I never even gave a 5751 a thought.I was working in a local rehearsal studio at the time and there was still a store on Canal St in lower Manhattan that stocked tubes.Anyway,the owner of the studio was a SRV freak,every amp in that studio had a 5751 in V1,Marshalls,Fenders,Peavey,Boogies.We bought up the last twenty some odd 5751's that guy had.Paid $6 a piece.He went out of business soon after that.Real sudden too,I didnt get a chance to buy out any of his stock,I showed up one afternoon to get some tubes and he was gone.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

It wasn't the ToneQuest Report interview with Cesar Diaz, then.

Nothing personal, Stokes, but I've got a mini-rant about this SRV-5751 mythology:

I've never been able to get those three simple questions answered with reliable references. Lots of rumors abound, and lots of mis-reporting (such as, SRV used the 5751 in the PI of all his amps; he used RCA 5751/he used GE 5751; etc.). Whatever people want to project on that fantastic player seems fair game. My point is - this is just hearsay rumor, and isn't very helpful without lots of experimenting by the person who tries to replicate SRV's sound.

A common late-production gray-plate JAN GE 5751 will sound different than early-production black-plate GE, which sounds different from same time period RCA 5751. SRV used many different amps to obtain his sounds, and his soul was in his touch. I personally don't recommend anyone chasing someone else's soul - especially with polymorphic misinformation as a compass. I do highly recommend that every player chase down his or her own soul, ruthlessly - like Cap't Ahab.

All-right, I'm calming down now :mrgreen:

- T

Okay,I first heard about it in an interview I read somewhere,not on the internet,a long time ago,mid to late 80's I think,but before I knew anything about the internet,with Ceasar Diaz.IIRC it was his Vibrolux,input triode,but he did talk about a number of amps in the article.Which 5751?Thats asking too much,at my age I'm lucky I remember....I forget what it is I'm lucky to remember.Before reading that,I never even gave a 5751 a thought.I was working in a local rehearsal studio at the time and there was still a store on Canal St in lower Manhattan that stocked tubes.Anyway,the owner of the studio was a SRV freak,every amp in that studio had a 5751 in V1,Marshalls,Fenders,Peavey,Boogies.We bought up the last twenty some odd 5751's that guy had.Paid $6 a piece.He went out of business soon after that.Real sudden too,I didnt get a chance to buy out any of his stock,I showed up one afternoon to get some tubes and he was gone.

 

[stokes]

Couldnt agree with you more,Tom.Stevies sound was definately in his hands,not his amp.He was one of those rare talents who could play thru a solid state amp and still sound good.I didnt mention the SRV thing because I am an advocate of it,but rather,it ticks me off because before every tube vendor started touting the 5751 as the secret to his sound,I could get them for $6 each.I happen to like the tube because of its lower gain and smoother overdrive properties,before reading that article way back when,my tube of choice was the 12AY7.The guy I worked for happened to be an obsessive type,he went thru a lot of phases in his playing where he would think something was the be-all and go overboard and buy 10 of whatever he thought was hot at that moment.I benefitted from his obsessing quite a bit,the 5751 was just one example.This guy went thru a PRS craze,back in '83-'85 he bought one of every model and color PRS had to offer.When his focus switched to vintage Les Pauls (he now has over 200 of them-all pre 1965's),he sold off his PRS',I got a brand new 1984 Standard for $700,it still had the hang tags,I could have gotten the last ten-top he had for $900,but I liked the tone of the plain mahogany body better.I got my MKIIC+ from this guy for $300,at the time he had a half dozen assorted Boogies,I also got my S.O.B. for $200 from him at the same time,I was vey happy he found Soldano!Anyway,back to the SRV thing,it was after we saw that interview,I think it was in some vintage guitar type periodical that was around at that time,but I dont recall exactly what it was called,my attention was drawn to the 5751,but not because I thought it made anybody sound like Stevie,but because of its obvious smoother overdriven tone properties.It was not my intention to fuel this myth any more than it has been beaten to death already.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

The guy I worked for happened to be an obsessive type,he went thru a lot of phases in his playing where he would think something was the be-all and go overboard and buy 10 of whatever he thought was hot at that moment.

Hmmm... that guy sounds familiar... :shock: Okay, maybe I should sell some tubes :roll:




Again, nothing personal, Stokes. Just my turn to vent against b.s. that undermines the utility of the Internet.

Cheerio! :mrgreen:

- Thom

 

[stokes]

The guy I worked for happened to be an obsessive type,he went thru a lot of phases in his playing where he would think something was the be-all and go overboard and buy 10 of whatever he thought was hot at that moment.

Hmmm... that guy sounds familiar... :shock: Okay, maybe I should sell some tubes :roll:




Again, nothing personal, Stokes. Just my turn to vent against b.s. that undermines the utility of the Internet.

Cheerio! :mrgreen:

- Thom

Nothing personal taken here,Thom.And I totally understand where you are coming from,way too much "disinformation" concerning tube amps in general.Like I said,I dont buy into the "this tube will make you sound..." b.s.,and weather he actually used a 5751 or not makes no difference to me.The fact that the story is out there has driven the price of my favorite tube thru the roof,where it would have gone,like any good NOS tube would eventually,but much sooner and not for the right reasons.I gotta wonder how many guys bought the tube thinking it would turn them into Stevie,like my old boss,tried it and ended up putting it aside to waste away unused.I can also see how my mentioning it just helps to fuel the rumor mill and hit a sore spot with you.So I am not claiming any fact associated with what I read about it,it just opened my eyes to a tube I otherwise never thought about much.I never saw that article you linked,I just gave it a quick scan,and from what I see,and I have to assume,he doesnt even mention the 5751,which is odd.That article is from 2000,the interview I saw was back in the mid to late '80's,and he definately mentioned the 5751 there,as well as some of the other issues he talks about in the later writing.