Look what I found! - Any one tried these tubes in The Mark V 90W?

Look at these tubes I came across going threw my gear cabinet. I forgot I had them.

Most of these have never been used but momentarily. Back when I got my mark 5:35w and my orange rocker 4+ years ago i got all these tubes.

I was using a Mark V 90w guide trying to retube my 35w. I didnt know what I was doing. I loved this mesa SPA ( I think its one of those vintage chinese spas from the late 80s 90s they put in the mark 4s and peiple love in marshalls. I poped it in V1 on my mark 5:35w it sounded amazing. Insainely good issue was when ever I activated the mid boost with the volue nob the amp starting doing all sorts of weird stuff. So i turned off the mid boost. Im gonna test it again but if i remember correctly it even started having issues without that activating so i took it out.

I also found a Jan Phillips NOS 5751 USA made. It didnt sound right in the 35w. I hear this tube is expensive as heck now, but I wana try on the 90w what Slot should I put it in?

Found a ruby NOS chinese 12AT7 (i think) rated on 2002. Any suggestions to use this on?

And for the possible holy grail. I found a NOS 12X7A marked tube with the red paint beijing square foil getter preamp tube? Suggestions on what Socket I should try that on?

I read that mesa uses all JJ preamp tubes now and that they are all darker than the ones used in the origonal mark 4 and dual recto amps.

I found these as well might get a few and try. Has anyone else tried?

https://rubytubes.com/products/12ax...xX0UAHw56fz6q_E9OsHuCp0XDdNaBHboaAgvLEALw_wcB

Aparently these are perfect remakes of the NOS chinese square foil dimpel getter tubes. Anyone tried these in there Mark V 90w

The issue right now is my sound is to dark and when i try to increase the treble on the GEQ it does this weird thin twang thing. I dont know if this is the ice pick I sure hope not.

You would know well enough if you have the ice pick issue. The effect would be like taking an ice pick and slamming it into your ear, you need to push it in hard enough to break the bone structure around the ear canal with it. It is not as physical as that but may as well be. It creates a very painful experience. If you though the screeching caulk across the caulk board was bad, this is 20 times worse. Sure, some amps can be bright but they do not seem to push the odd order harmonics into death tones. The other common term used back in the day was Shot noise. Why shot noise, it was described as the sound of steel pellets or shot (used in shotgun shells) being dumped into a large steel bowl all at once. I always thought that was associated with solid state amplifiers, nope, it was derived from the triode circuits and power amps that did not have negative feedback to prevent the odd order harmonic amplification.

The JAN 5751 can be used in V1 if you so desire to use it. I have tried it in the Mark V90 in many locations including V4. Also ran that in the Roadster as V1 during some experimental tube rolls. I found the Beijing tubes to be more to my liking. It will bring out the best of the clean channels in both amps. I favor the Beijing tubes in many of my amps, the only problem is that I have a limited resource of them on hand. Most of what I have is now in the Roadster.

As for the Mark V90, mine is an ice pick machine. However, the Beijing tubes did seem to aid in keeping that toned down. I would not call that dark sounding tubes as they can be bright as well, depends on the amp in question. Much tighter gain response on the low end frequencies when compared to the Mesa current 12AX7 (JJ ECC83s). MWDR, I like the stock tubes. Same with the Badlander. It made no different what I used in the Triple Crown. Royal Atlantic, that is a different story, more of an RFT 12AX7 and Ei CV492 (long plate Mullard copy) that have become difficult to find.

As for the 12AT7, hard to say were that would work best. It may do well in the V4 of the Mark V or it could be bright as a banshee like the Tung Sol 12AT7 or the other Chinese 12AT7 that looks the same but has a halo getter (those were used in the TC and RA amps and the TT800 bass amp). There is something to be said about the JAN/Phillips 12AT7 as it is much more musical than the others I have experimented with, I run those in the TT800 bass amp. Also it was the ideal choice for V4 of the Mark V90 if you had an ice machine like mine. It only helped to some degree but did not fully fix the ice issue.

The Beijing foil getter tubes are much more reliable than the ones made with the Halo getter. Quality of the tube? Not sure what. I have a few of the newer versions but they all have the halo. A few with a different brand name, not sure what that is off the top of my head, most were microphonic so I could not use them, they were part of a tone kit from Doug's tubes). There was one in the Marshall Silver Jubilee and a few in the EVH IIIs 5150 EL34 amp I replaced with Mesa (JJ ECC83s) tubes. There are also some Chinese tubes, Gen 7 or Gen 9, they are different in design and do not have the silver clips on the plates. Those are not bad at all. I much prefer the Beijing tubes. Not only are they much quieter in the noise floor, they sound good too. Not sloppy like the JJ ECC83s can get. Depends on the amp, found those to be lacking in low end tightness. RFT 12AX7 have a similar characteristic to the JJ ECC83s when you are not driving them too hard, but when you get the gain up or signal level into that tube, it can rip some really cool sounds, dark and sinister with a driven gain structure the JJ ECC83s cannot deliver. What does get close, the JJ E83CC tube which is called a frame grid design. the first set I got from the Tube Depot, they sent me E88CC by mistake. I am glad I noticed that before trying them. Not the same tube. the frame grid tubes have a good noise floor characteristic, almost on par as the Beijing 12AX7. Depends on what amp you have them in. JP2C was still noisy with those but not as noisy as the stock Mesa 12AX7. Will have to try some of the Beijing tubes in the JP again. First time I ran with those I still had the STR440 tubes, those can sound fizzy at times.

My particular Mark V90 is the Lemon ICE model. It has many issues. Not sure if it could be narrowed down to a specific production date. I have played others of the same year, and they all sounded really good. Just my luck I pulled the trigger and got a row of lemons on the draw. Most of you either get BARs, Bells, 7s or Cherries. I got all lemons. One lemon for tone, lone lemon for FX loop characteristics and one lemon for power amp.

I just got a NOS JAN Phillips 5751 for $50. I don't like it in the Mark V 90W. Anywhere I put it, it drops the gain too much
I had a JJ 5751 a year ago and I don't remember it dropping that much gain, but I didn't have the Mark V yet. It's also one of the only two tubes that have ever burned out on me in the 3 years I've been using tube amps.
I have an RCA 12AX7 and that one seems to be darker than the various new-production 12AX7's I have.

Ive had my mark V 90 for a year? or two? I have yet to try preamp tube rolling. I kinda don't want to open that pandoras box. Lol. It has all mesa 12AX7's that are probably from the factory.

Nandrewjackson said:

Ive had my mark V 90 for a year? or two? I have yet to try preamp tube rolling. I kinda don't want to open that pandoras box. Lol. It has all mesa 12AX7's that are probably from the factory.

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I've rolled a bunch of different preamp tubes thru my Mk V 90 (and 5 other tube amps), and all I really get is changes in the amount of gain, but no significant difference in tone. Whatever tubes are in it, it always has its same inherent sound, just with different levels of gain that react to your playing differently.

DECEMBER said:

I've rolled a bunch of different preamp tubes thru my Mk V 90 (and 5 other tube amps), and all I really get is changes in the amount of gain, but no significant difference in tone. Whatever tubes are in it, it always has its same inherent sound, just with different levels of gain that react to your playing differently.

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Just trying to kill some of the harshess and honestly I think some of my stock tubes need to be replaced microphic stuff i think going on. I honestly killed most of the harshness by doing less of dramstic shaping on the graphic eq out side of the 750 slider and letting my para eq in the loop do the majority

Ascendance said:

Just trying to kill some of the harshess and honestly I think some of my stock tubes need to be replaced microphic stuff i think going on. I honestly killed most of the harshness by doing less of dramstic shaping on the graphic eq out side of the 750 slider and letting my para eq in the loop do the majority

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Curious is it Ch 3 harshness? or overall? I'm guessing you saw this thread, 45 pages & counting lots of good observations and posts in it

V Saturation Mod

Just outlining one experience here... when I first got the V:90 Ch 3 seemed to have that harshness folks had posted about. Now to be fair I was using the Recto 2x12 v30s which have that mid-range hump and in retrospect they probably added to what I was hearing. So tried a JAN 12AT7 in V4 and that made a major difference. Typically I admit to having poor "tube sniffing" skills, have been down the tube rabbit hole and my pocketbook has been disappointed with preamp and power tubes that seem to do little. But this V4 AT7 change was evident even to me, so it stayed.

Fast forward a few years and with alot more experience with the amp, cabs other pieces of the signal chain I began feeling that Ch 3 was a bit lacking in gain and was compensating for it in other ways. Finally decided to swap back in a Mesa SPAX7 for fun and Ch 3's gain response was much improved. Ending up dialing out more signal chain gain and that eased the overall signal compression. Also do not feel there is any major harshness to speak of. FWIW I've kinda come full circle on the V4 deal.

Ascendance said:

Just trying to kill some of the harshess and honestly I think some of my stock tubes need to be replaced microphic stuff i think going on. I honestly killed most of the harshness by doing less of dramstic shaping on the graphic eq out side of the 750 slider and letting my para eq in the loop do the majority

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RCA 12AX7's are usually quite expensive, but I was able to get a used one and it seems to be a tad darker than others, so less harsh.
Also, the Mullard CV4004 and The Tube Store 7025 seem to be a bit smoother than new-production 12AX7's.
But the differences are subtle, and most noticeable in recordings.
I also use parametric EQ, first in the loop, with 2 bands cutting ~1975 and 2160Hz with very narrow bandwidths, to tame that harsh high-frequency overtone.

Nandrewjackson said:

Ive had my mark V 90 for a year? or two? I have yet to try preamp tube rolling. I kinda don't want to open that pandoras box. Lol. It has all mesa 12AX7's that are probably from the factory.

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Don't!!!!!

DECEMBER said:

RCA 12AX7's are usually quite expensive, but I was able to get a used one and it seems to be a tad darker than others, so less harsh.
Also, the Mullard CV4004 and The Tube Store 7025 seem to be a bit smoother than new-production 12AX7's.
But the differences are subtle, and most noticeable in recordings.
I also use parametric EQ, first in the loop, with 2 bands cutting ~1975 and 2160Hz with very narrow bandwidths, to tame that harsh high-frequency overtone.

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I'm still on the fence trying to hear and decide if tubes are frequency enhancers. They all have their personalities but eq's in a glass tube? Man, I don't know.

Henz said:

I'm still on the fence trying to hear and decide if tubes are frequency enhancers. They all have their personalities but eq's in a glass tube? Man, I don't know.

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I've rolled many different brand tubes thru 6 different tube amps. The only significant differences I've really attained are in the amount of gain and the character of the distortion (one config may be more gritty or harsh, and another may be smoother), but the amp always retains its inherent tone. Replacing two of the 7 12AX7's in my Mk V with a 5751 and 12AT7 is enough to turn channel 3 from metal distortion to just overdrive, but it still sounds the same, other than the obvious difference in gain.
I've recorded the same riff thru the same exact settings, only changing tubes. I'd get about 10 takes with different tube mixes and loop it while A/B'ing them on the fly. There were very subtle differences in tone that were only really noticeable thru headphones. This one was a tad brighter, this one had a tad more bass, this one a tad darker, this one a tad more harsh... etc. But I mean very subtle differences that I would never notice when just hearing the amp thru the speakers.

DECEMBER said:

I've rolled a bunch of different preamp tubes thru my Mk V 90 (and 5 other tube amps), and all I really get is changes in the amount of gain, but no significant difference in tone. Whatever tubes are in it, it always has its same inherent sound, just with different levels of gain that react to your playing differently.

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Yeah , The V has soo many tubes cascaded in such a way that you get no real benefit from tube rolling...unless you want to roll all 7. My IVB you get REAL results from tube rolling, but not the V at ALL(90 watt I am talking...no idea about the others)