There may be a fix for instrument level FX pedals.

[bandit2013]

As some of you have discovered, the Triple Crown runs a line level FX loop. That means +4dBu levels. It can run much higher than that around +8dBu on the clean channel with the volume maxed out. No distortion. The hi/lo channel will be less potent due to compression and clipping. There are effects pedals that can operate up to +8dBu or even higher as well as perform well in the high impedance instrument level range of -20dBu. I have long searched for an interface that would work but gave up after I tossed out all of my instrument level fx pedals. (I gave them to some friends who were just starting out). However, there is something I came across that may actually work. I was helping someone in the forums who has encountered issues with the FX loop with their TC50. It is not always mentioned in the specifications of the device it if can be used in a line level application. If it is not stated and all that is listed is signal to noise ratio or impedances of the input and output, it generally means the device is instrument level and should be used on the front end of the amp. With a short search on the subject there were two devices that may be a fix for the issue but are no longer in production. Fuchs Tube FX loop, Pigtronix Keymaster. I have no experience with either of these devices. I also did find some in other forums on this same subject suggest using a re-amp unit. So, I looked into that as a possible solution.

The key aspect of the TC amps or any other tube amp that runs a line level FX loop is that the send and return are unbalanced connections. 1/4 TS. Most re-amp units are balanced XLR or 1/4 TRS type. Some do have a compound input and output format that include the balanced XLR, 1/4 TRS but can also be used as unbalanced 1/4TS.

There is a device made by Radial Engineering. EXTC-SA that makes use of the line level send/return and runs the FX loop interface for high impedance instrument level devices. Again, I have no experience with this device. However, the intention of it is to interface a mixer, DAW or other which is line level to make use of instrument level fx units. Since the 1/4 jacks can be used with standard instrument cable 1/4 TS type, it will work in the unbalanced FX loop of the amp. Just thought I would pass that along and if anyone has used one of these units.

EXTC-SA - Radial Engineering

The Radial EXTC-SA is a stand-alone audio interface that lets you incorporate guitar effects into the realm of pro-audio recording.

www.radialeng.com

 

[domct203]

I used the Ebtech line level shifter in the past with my MKV90 & Roadster with great results.

It looks like Morley has bought them out and changed the design a bit but it should still work the same.

Morley MLLS 2-channel Line Level Shifter

2-channel Line-level Shifter with XLR and 1/4-inch I/O

www.sweetwater.com

 

[bandit2013]

I used the Ebtech line level shifter in the past with my MKV90 & Roadster with great results.

It looks like Morley has bought them out and changed the design a bit but it should still work the same.

Morley MLLS 2-channel Line Level Shifter

2-channel Line-level Shifter with XLR and 1/4-inch I/O

www.sweetwater.com

I have the Ebtech unit myself. One you read the fine print on the product, "not intended for instrument level or mic level use" It did work with the TC50 and an instrument level effect like the Line6 DL4 but to be honest, the effect in the loop worked just fine without the Ebtech unit. I got it hoping to cure the Mark V90 FX loop problem. Did nothing to fix it. Also tried the same approach with the JP2C and Royal Atlantic just for kicks. It worked but was not needed. The Line6 DL4 is the only pedal I have that is not compatible with the Mark V90, gets completely compressed and distorted. But that is just my experience. I should try that with the Source Audio Ventris. It works without tone loss but cuts the volume down considerably. Never considered using the Ebtech with that. That is supposed to be line level compatible.

 

[domct203]

I needed it to stop the MKV from clipping the input of my G-System. I did see the fine print but took a chance. I tried it with an old Ibanez delay I’ve had forever and it worked great with the Roadster.

I doubt it would work if plugging a passive guitar directly into it, but most pedals have a buffered output.

Dom

 

[Theresa]

I think this needs clarification. We are dealing with three different levels here... -20dB Instrument level; -10dB Line level and +4dB Pro Audio level. Typically line levels are found to use both balanced (TRS) and unbalanced (TS) signals whereas +4dB (XLR) is almost alway balanced. I have found a myriad in/output levels among stomp boxes but usually -20dB so as to play nice with the front end of an amp. -10dB works well in FX loops. Anything else will require line matching unless you are going into compatible signal chains. A quick review of specs should reveal what you are dealing with.

 

[bandit2013]

I got a response from Radial engineering in regards to using the EXTC-SA in the fx loop of a guitar amp. Running unbalanced TS cables will have more noise compared to any XLR or TRS cable for balanced impedance runs. I do not need this device but was one of the first units that I found that will convert line level down to instrument level to use FX units that are not compatible with line level FX loops that most guitar amps are using these days.

Thank you for your interest in Radial Engineering.

The EXTC-SA can be used for this application by using unbalanced 1/4" cable connections, but just keep in mind that we recommend keeping the cabling as short as possible when in use in order to get the best results in terms of noise.