stiletto vs marshall

[drikalot]

ive heard alot from reviews and alot of ppl say the stiletto deuce II is a marshall killer! i have a marshall DSL100 and its metal distortion destroys the stiletto's. the stilettos clean and crunch sounds are amazing but when you try and get some good heavy sounds out of it, it sounds like ***.

how can it be a marshall killer when marshalls make great metal amps aswell as bluesy, rock amps?

i have tried many many settings and i dont believe that is the problem.

what are your thoughts, maybe there is an issue with my stiletto?

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

Not sure what you mean by Stilletto sounds like "***", but mine just sounds great. Even better distortion than the DSL100 IMO...

 

[stephen sawall]

They are just different amps that have some things in common. One destroys, kills, etc. a other one ..... no matter what amps sounds silly to me.

Besides Marshall has made so many amps over the years ..... many more than Mesa. Making a statement like that even less valid and pretty much meaningless.

Things like one amp has tighter bass, more gain, better cleans, etc are a lot more realistic in describing amps.

It all just comes down to taste. I have found I pretty much like amps for what they are. Each has its own uses.

All of this is about amps in general. Not the two here.

.... and after saying that .... I well say a JMP is one of my favorite amps.

 

[drikalot]

sounds like *** means i dont like it and neither does anyone else in the band.

when i plug one amp in and it does what i want it to do alot better than another i tend to think it destroys it. (maybe its my aussie slang)

i would love hear some more about the two amps in discussion and less about the way i describe things.

to be particular lets not compare the stiletto to the crappy cheap marshalls, more the JCM 800.

 

[stephen sawall]

It is my understanding the Stiletto's preamp has a lot in common with a 800. Well the power amp is a lot like a Dual Rectifier.

The tone controls have very different sweeps ..... I have found I like the presence and treble very low on the Stiletto. 8/10 o'clock range. The 800 more in the 12/2 range.

The Mesa needs to be set up right to get a good sound. The Marshall is a lot more forgiving with the range it sounds good in. This makes sense since a 800 is only one channel and the Mesa needs to work with six voices.

The sound that is similar to a 800 is the crunch voices. Most of the other voices have more of a modified English crunch sound or clean sounds.

About the only thing the Stiletto has in common with the Marshall's is they are both English crunch voiced amps. A few of dozens of amp company's that make amps like this. I am sure you can find many people that like one amp better than the other for both amps. This is nothing but taste.

... And like I said Marshall has made so many amps in the last almost 50 years ..... to compare one on one is one thing. But Marshall has made dozens of not cheap amps in this style. JTM45, Plexi, Super Lead, JCM, 800, 900, 2000, Silver Jubilee, DSL, TSL, etc.

 

[drikalot]

i the 800 being more forgiving with its eq i totaly understand.

thanks for that description...

i think ppl think im a bit crazy for all the amps i go through. i really like the stiletto and i know i can get it (some how) to do what i want it to do. Im going to go and spend some more time with it and see what i can come up with.

it has some tough competition though. my band mate uses a blackface recto and i mainly use a mark VI. my mark died on me 2 weeks ago so i plugged the stiletto in and i just couldnt get it to sound right. The reason i brought this topic up is because i dont seem to be able to get a usable metal tone out of the stiletto, i resorted to dusting of the old DSL100 that gone un-used ever since mesa came into my life, and it sounds quite good and usable. I find this strange because of how many have said the stiletto is a "marshall on steroids" or "mesa does the marshall thing".

also i never mean any disrespect to the stiletto. even if i cant get a metal tone out of it, i just wont use it for that. i will however keep it for the tones i can get from it because its a fantastic amp.

 

[stephen sawall]

In general when people are talking about Marshall's they mean the JCM or 800. Neither of these are what many think of as metal.

I own a Trident, Tremoverb and IV.
The Mark and DR can do the modern sounds. The Stiletto is more of a vintage voiced amp.

It is almost the opposite of the Mark amps ..... as in turn up the bass and midrange and turn down the treble and presence on the stiletto.

It also like to have the power amp turned up more than most amps to get in the range most like. Turn up the master and it well sound a lot better. Up around noon or higher is what I like.

The only voices that really gets into the modern sounds is tite gain and fluid drive. I like fluid drive better for the modern sounds. It is not going to get into the range the IV and DR well.

 

[stephen sawall]

This is something i do not normally recommend .... a boost like a TS9 or BB may get the sounds you want from the Stiletto.

 

[cragginshred]

something not covered in the context of getting good tone, EQ it! Put an eq pedal such as a Boss 7 band or an MXR 10 band in the loop, combined with presence at 7 to 8 o'clock bass at 2, mid and treble at 10 and keep the channel vol below 10 then drive it with the master vol, you will be blown away! Cannot a/b it to a marshall, but it sounds excellent to me!

 

[cragginshred]

oh yeaeh, the bb pre by xotic is very cool with the stiletto too, although not death metal. But as previously stated, in the context of the topic and the amp this should go with out saying...

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

Hey mate, Oz represent here too...

Just curious, are you getting tones similar to these or what???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjpnRjI3llk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y37MV7H8xWI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaUUL8nTvVI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ0zoRu22wM

That's the general idea. But hey, I myself own a Stiletto Deuce II head, and it kick arse. Also blends very well with the Roadster. Granted, it won't be as gain heavy as the Roadster, but I don't think anyone needs that much gain really, unless you are Dimebag or something. Anyway, whereabouts are you at mate???

Personally, the Stiletto is one of the most underrated Mesa amp in their range. It's really a great amp once you've dialled it in right...

 

[droptrd]

For metal i think a stiletto needs a bit of a push. An EQ in the loop is cool and an OD out front is a must IMO. I love a Barber DD with the stilettos.

Also the Duece will not sound like a mark IV. I went from a Rev G recto to my stiletto. It was total culture shock. I thought I made a HUGE mistake after I brought it home from a trade. I hated this thing. The problem was that I was trying to make my trident sound like my old recto. FAIL! Once I got in the mindset of letting the Stiletto sound like a Stiletto I started to fall in love with it. This took some time. The Stiletto is one of the hardest amp to dial in - in my experiance. The ODs that were cool with the recto didnt do as well with the stiletto. Went thru another batch of ODs before settling on a Barber.

So im running a Hollywood modded Trident I with a recto std 412 w/V30s and a Randall xlt412 w/V30s X H30s. I put an Allums modded GE7 eq in the loop and a Barber Direct Drive in front. Couldnt be happier.

The GE7 is set with 100hz +1.5db and 200hz +1db. thats it. Still very noticable.

The one thing I noticed between the DSL and Stiletto is the texture of the high gain tone. The stiletto is more vintage/ grainy compared to the DSL.

 

[drikalot]

thanks for all your help and advice guys.

after i posted yesterday and got that description about the 800 is more fogiving than the stiletto with its range ( great to know thanks to stephen sawall) i went down to my band room and really spent some time with it. and im pretty sure i have figured it out. it turns out it was the difference between spongy and bold. being a metalhead and wanting that kickass metal sound my brain seems to have looked at the word spongy and think "how gay that must sound, i want my tone to be BOLD!!!!" ha ha ha. anyway after flicking the switch down to spongy, wow what a difference! that harsh ear peircing edge and fluff went away and the amp became totally smooth and easy to work with and now sounds great!

however! i have yet to hear it along side the recto or mark. so i will be sure to log back in and report my findings after i have band prac tomorrow...

as for the jcm800 not being considered a metal amp i have to dissagree. well IMO i think the 800 is one of the best just listen to zakk and slayer. i tend to prefer tones with alot of tone if you know what i mean? i like my tone to be thick and warm and but alto have that scooped metal quality to it. ( i dont scoop the mids ) since my mark died ive been trying out some of my older amps just to remember them y'know. i plugged my 5150 yesteday and fark did it sound horrible!

i have seen all them vids on youtube and i was impressed with how good the stiletto sounds and thats why i brought one. but no i havn't been able to get mine to sound like any of the heavier tones..like i said tho when i get it back down to band prac and crank the ******* we shal see how it goes.

G'day felow ozzie, im in victoria down frankston way. how bout yourself?

 

[stephen sawall]

I think you well find Zakk was using a Boss OD-1 and the guys in Slayer were using a EQ with the 800. Both got great sounds this way. The 800 by it's self it is similar to the crunch voices on the Stiletto as I stated before. With Pedals and EQ you can make just about any amp do metal. Maybe not good .... but metal all the same.

It well be interesting to see what you think of it once you spend more time with the band. Thick crunchy upper mid / cutting in the mix sounds the Stiletto can do.

I know I got some huge sounds when using my Tremoverb and Trident at the same time. 4x12 each. Concentrating on the lower midrange of the DR and getting the upper mid cut from the Stiletto.

Remember how long it took to learn how to get control of the Mark IV. The Stiletto may take the same.

 

[drikalot]

yeah i know they used things to boost their amps and the sound kicks arse. one of things i tried often to make it sound good was using it like it was an old 800. by turning the gain way down or using the crunch setting and using a 808 to push the preamp but i didnt like it too much...it might sound good now though due to the spongy technique haha!

funny you should say how you run yours with the recto to get the lower mid sound and the mid range sounds to make one awesome tone because thats what i plan on doing with mine but only with the mark VI. ive done this a couple of times but i get real bad ground loop buzzing so untill i get a splitter ive just been using the mark. however when i did split and putup with the buzzing for a bit and despite i was unhappy with the stiletto on its own, the blend ot the 2 amps together made me get goosebumps!!! I really cant wait to get my mark back so i can try it again with the stiletto now!

"Remember how long it took to learn how to get control of the Mark IV. The Stiletto may take the same."

its like you know me man! ha ha ha i remember not liking the mark too much when i first got it but i fiddled around for a couple of hours and the amp started to show itself. your quote above is funny because every day i would tweek something and the amp got better and still to this day the mark surprises me with new sounds that i love.


as for the eq in the loop thing hmmmmm. i dont like to do that anymore! its a path i have been down, and as my ears have developed i find that eq's and sonic maximisers etc seem to take away a sertain feel the amp gives when you strike the strings. ill give it another shot though, as ive read good things in another post with the stiletto.

im out for the day ill be sure on be back tomorrow to let you know how i go.

peace 8)

 

[stephen sawall]

Not all splitter are created equal. Some do not help with the problems you are talking about. I hear the one by http://www.tonebone.com/re-bigshot-aby.htm is a good one. Notice the On-board transformer to eliminate ground buzz, LIFT switch and 180° polarity reverse to phase-match amps. These are very helpful.

I have never used it. I use a GCX / GCP system and this is what I use to mix amps. These days I have been using my Fryette Sig X and one of my THD's {Flex 50, Bivalve and Series One Plexi}.

I am sure with the tight low end of the IV and EQ you should get a great sound mixed with the Stiletto.
Not a big fan of using pedals or EQ myself. It does have it's uses.
I almost always use spongy with the Trident.

The IV does that to everyone. Original owner of the 12th one made ..... and I still find new sounds in her 21 years later.

 

[JOEY B.]

I think you well find Zakk was using a Boss OD-1

Awesome Boss OD pedal, I used it with my Mark I for years with great results. 8)

 

[ozthrasher]

just get a dual rec mate (blackface)

 

[drikalot]

i was thinking of getting the lelhe P-split ive heard nothing but good things about them.

mate i use a GCX and GCP as well and using the GCX im getting ground loop issues... how do you run yours without buzzing?

ive just had a thought about MAYBE why the stiletto is sounding so good hear at home...could it be possible that because here at home im plugged into a 4X12 with g12t-75s, and the natural lack of mids in the g12ts be whats controling the peircing fluff noise? at band prac i plug into 2 mesa stiletto cabs with V30s.

i will find out soon enough, just thought i would question it before i do the big test..

 

[stephen sawall]

Some amps I do get problems and others I do not.
It was almost 4 years ago I was mixing the Trident and Tremoverb together. At that time I did not have the GCX/GCP. I can not remember what I was using then.

I plan on getting one of these http://www.rjmmusic.com/ynot.php. It being MIDI controlled and I hear it works perfect.

What I do is use one amp that is mostly preamp distortion and a channel switcher all the time. Clean/crunch/ leads and is also the wet amp. The other amp is dry and mostly power amp distortion. The other amp only comes on with some presets. Crunch/Leads. This amp is not used for clean sounds ever.

After screwing around with a bunch of different combination's .... this is what works for me.