Mark Five 25 clarity needed!

[Jemwiz00]

First time poster, hopefully in right locale...
My Mark Five 25 is easily the best music purchase I've made in years. The form factor is perfect and the output volume is just what I've been hoping for. My only problem is getting the awesome tones I've sculpted to fit in the mix of my band. I mostly am concerned with the 2nd channel. I prefer the Mark 4 mode to the others but it really gets lost in the mix. I have the EQ engaged with the highs and lows boosted. The mids are scooped only slightly as I prefer the tone. This is where I suspected the problem lies - so I monkeyed around with the 750 fader. It really only changes the tonal characteristics not the clarity I'm searching for. I did try boosting the presence and bringing down the gain like was suggested in another thread. This did clean up the gain but added more sizzle and a bit too much high end. I thought the two high faders would assist as well - but that boost makes it intolerable. If anyone has any other pointers would be much appreciated. I've found the tone I love but it needs to cut through the mix! I play in a 4 piece Rock-Metal group and am battling a very loud keyboard player. Thanks to all in advance!

 

[BeYourself]

First time poster, hopefully in right locale...
My Mark Five 25 is easily the best music purchase I've made in years. The form factor is perfect and the output volume is just what I've been hoping for. My only problem is getting the awesome tones I've sculpted to fit in the mix of my band. I mostly am concerned with the 2nd channel. I prefer the Mark 4 mode to the others but it really gets lost in the mix. I have the EQ engaged with the highs and lows boosted. The mids are scooped only slightly as I prefer the tone. This is where I suspected the problem lies - so I monkeyed around with the 750 fader. It really only changes the tonal characteristics not the clarity I'm searching for. I did try boosting the presence and bringing down the gain like was suggested in another thread. This did clean up the gain but added more sizzle and a bit too much high end. I thought the two high faders would assist as well - but that boost makes it intolerable. If anyone has any other pointers would be much appreciated. I've found the tone I love but it needs to cut through the mix! I play in a 4 piece Rock-Metal group and am battling a very loud keyboard player. Thanks to all in advance!

It's 'in the mids' is the simple answer, but other things you can try is:
- disengaging the GEQ or using it as a solo boost inverted V shape,
- lower the gain to get the clarity,
- trying different speakers
- fiddling with the tone controls whilst jamming
- telling your keyboardist to stop covering so much real estate.

 

[firmani99]

What speakers are you using? Switch to Vintage 30's if you are not currently using them and I am willing to bet that it will solve your problem.

 

[elvis]

I found with mine that an oversize 1x12 ported cab with C90 was REALLY scooped, making the amp sound invisible when playing with my band. Even adding a similar cab with V30 sounded like it had a blanket over it unless I pushed the mids up quite a bit. Running just the V30 cab by itself cut beautifully. Also, both my 2x12 V30 cabs sound great with it.

I also agree that turning down the gain helps a lot. The dynamics (transient response is the main element of clarity) get really squashed at high gain. Turning gain down and presence up will get you tons of punch and clarity. Of course, then you can't be lazy in your playing :wink:

My measure for dynamics is that I strum my pick across my strings while muting them with my left hand. If the amp punches me in my earholes like an old HiWatt when I do that, then the tone, cut and clarity will be great. Presence is the #1 control for that. Next is treble combined with gain. I usually go more treble and less gain.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I'm curious as to what speakers and cab the OP is using?

If it's closed back, are all the speakers firing forward? Or are some of them aimed upwards?

And... does the guitar sound good through FOH?

I haven't had issues cutting through with a moderate scoop but I've never had to compete against keys. My gut reaction is to get the keys to notch part of his midrange so you're not fighting over the same territory but I'm not expert here. Your EQ's and tonality should both be complimenting each other unless one or the other is stepping out for a solo. The secret is that every instrument (including vocals) should work together... so long as you're "competing" with each other to be heard your band's overall sound will suffer.

 

[elvis]

Listen to Saga's "Heads or Tales Live" to hear how they mix guitar and keys. I think they do a good job.

Incidentally, I believe Ian plays through a Diezel Herbert on that.

 

[primal]

What speakers are you using? Switch to Vintage 30's if you are not currently using them and I am willing to bet that it will solve your problem.

WHAT HE SAID!!!!!!!!

 

[Jemwiz00]

Thank you for all the detailed responses! I will try the suggestions out for sure. Currently I have a 2x12 closed back with Celestion seventy 80's that I've been using for my rehearsals. I am also using an IEM system with the cab clone into the board. I have a Mini Recto Cab at home that has a V30 in it - maybe I will use that instead of the bigger cab next time. I am fairly certain I have a tone that works for what we do, I've tweaked the hell out of the mids. I generally run the 750 slider a little higher than most settings I've seen on the board. My lead sound cuts through better than the rhthym - it sounds very complex and full on its own - but throw in my whole band and it kind of disappears. Hopefully, I am explaining it correctly. Im going to try the Mini recto cab at my next rehearsal. Hopefully I will figure it all out (somewhat) before I gig the amp in a couple weeks. When in doubt, just turn it up louder right!

 

[elvis]

Most people scoop too much because they like a lot of lows when playing alone. But in the band the drums and bass mask the lows. If you turn up, you'll burn a ton more power trying to sound louder, but it'll just be more lows that you still won't hear. However, all the extra lows in the room will destroy your hearing.

Drop your overall volume and accent your mids, plus add a bit of boost in 2kHz-4kHz. That will add some liveliness and pull you up in the mix. Trim your lows at 60-100Hz to tighten your low-end.

 

[HK Expat]

+1 to the question of "what speakers are you using". This is critical. You need to consider that everything in your signal path will shape your tone, your ability to cut through the mix, everything. Vintage 30's are great. I am using a Road King 2X12 with my Mark V:25 (V30 closed, Classic 90 open back), but I am sure that it also sounds great with a Recto 2X12 (both speakers closed).

You need to pay attention to speaker choice, and impedance matching. 8 or 4 ohm cab OK. 16 ohm cab, no. If you really want volume out of your cab, then put it into a 4X12 Mesa cab. It WILL sound great.

 

[BeYourself]

I am also using an IEM system with the cab clone into the board

Hey man am intrigued about this step up.

Would be grateful if u could guide us through how you set up this up?

Cheers
Alex

 

[Jemwiz00]

Again - thanks for the suggestions. I had more luck this past week with presence in the mix.
Seems to be essential to lower the gain a smidge and up the mids two smidges.

As far as the setup I use with the IEM's - I still use the earbuds for my vocal mix.
But this week I committed to removing all but the vox from the in ear mix. I had been sending the
4 ohm out to my 212 (celestion seventy 80's) cab and a separate XLR from the cab clone out to the board.

I've been fighting volume and clarity and thought the in ears would be the ticket.
First practice w IEM system I had everything going to the board including drums
It was all just a big mush. That's what prompted my first post.

Through some experimentation and use of the suggestions on this board I've
Got a much better handle on everything. Thanks!