Best pedals to improve the Mark series overdrive tone

[invaluement]

I am a lifelong fan of the Mesa mark series starting from when I was in my early teens in the mid eighties and my guitar teacher had a mark-IIC+, it was amazing. Then, for several years I owned a Mesa Quad-4 preamp, and that was awesome too.

So now I'm seriously considering buying the new mark 7, but as much as I love Mesa Boogies, I have to admit that the overdrive tones I hear on things like the Friedman amps (SSv2, BE deluxe) and the Victory Kraken... sound a little better. I don't want/need death metal, just a wide range of classic/hard rock and blues, as well as 80s hair metal (Van Halen, Ratt, Night Ranger, etc). Those other amps I mentioned seem to have a more personality in their overdrive tones, but without the muddy/artificial sounds you hear in things like a line6 solid state amp (at least their older ones).

I would add 5150 to this list of amazing O.D. tones, but those sounds just a LITTLE too processed/artificial to me. Bogner was also close, but their tones are too dark/woody for me. Their Atma didn't have this problem, but it's too inflexible for many applications. (No midi, limited control from the footswitch)

But I'm convinced that these better overdrive tones were achieved via circuitry that's really more like having a light overdrive (like a morning glory) built in the amp, and if I'm right about that, then that's sort of "cheating" and in a sense, the amp is making decisions for you! I think perhaps the key here is that Mesa is more purist and trying to not try too hard!

Meanwhile, the flexibility and range of tones from a Mesa mark is amazing, the midi and built in load box, and IR cabs - all that is amazing. I really want the Mesa Mark 7, just with a little bit more personally in the overdrive.

It's possible that this is already solved with the new Mark 7 tones? Very few reviews/vids have covered that well yet. I'm curious about that.

So, does anyone have any suggestions for pedals that achieve this same tone goal? ...either where (1) the pedals is doing all the O.D. on the clean channel, or (2) where it's adding just a little bit of extra personally to the Mark amp's overdrive tones, but without being death metal - please specify that in your suggestions.

 

[strattex14]

I have a MKIIB and I run a TS9 or a VHT VDrive on the clean channel for a little more snap. It gives me the option of pushing it up, if so desired. All my modulation pedals are in the effects loop.

 

[invaluement]

Actually, this vid of the new VII setting is very close to what I've after! In particular, listen to the chord held out at 3:30 - except I wish I could reach through the screen and dial back the gain just a little bit. But I'm still wondering if there is a good gain-stacking idea that combines an overdrive pedal with the amp's built-in overdrive?

 

[woodbutcher65]

The amps that you mention are all from the Marshall lineage, all having their ancestry rooted in the model 1959 Superlead, which is a fundamentally, conceptually different amp than the Mark series Mesa concept.

The Marshall is a low gain preamp and to get it to grind, you turn it up and saturate the power stage. This gives a different set of harmonics than those you get by overdriving preamp stages, particularly cascaded preamp stages. While most Marshall derivatives today do have master volume controls, they're still built to emulate that sound only usually with some added preamp stage overdrive as well.
The base idea of the Mark series is preamp gains and tons of it, with an effective master volume control that lets you get a screaming tone without necessarily having to make the more sensitive ears in the audience run for the exits. Mesas are not known for their power amp stage saturation, not like Marshalls are.

In my opinion, you need both. Marshall tone is awesome. Boogie tone is awesome. Get both. Neither can fully replace the other.

 

[Acey Boy]

Actually, this vid of the new VII setting is very close to what I've after! In particular, listen to the chord held out at 3:30 - except I wish I could reach through the screen and dial back the gain just a little bit. But I'm still wondering if there is a good gain-stacking idea that combines an overdrive pedal with the amp's built-in overdrive?

Have you tried a Klon in front of a Mark series amp? Until I did I never really got the Klon hype honestly. The Klon on gain settings varying between 9 o’clock to around 3 o’clock on the lead channel of my Studio Pre/ 50-50 setup sounds phenomenal. It takes everything great about the amp and makes it better by an order of magnitude, string articulation, sensitivity and feel are so present. Also had a chance to demo the Klon into a Mark III and it was equally stunning. I’m not sure if you could get a Mark VII tone but I think you’ll like it.

 

[invaluement]

Have you tried a Klon in front of a Mark series amp? Until I did I never really got the Klon hype honestly. The Klon on gain settings varying between 9 o’clock to around 3 o’clock on the lead channel of my Studio Pre/ 50-50 setup sounds phenomenal. It takes everything great about the amp and makes it better by an order of magnitude, string articulation, sensitivity and feel are so present. Also had a chance to demo the Klon into a Mark III and it was equally stunning. I’m not sure if you could get a Mark VII tone but I think you’ll like it.

I will try that. Thanks! BTW - after watching a few vids about the Klon at the JHS Petals YouTube channel (highly recommended) - I've figured out that the actual original specs for the Klon are now in the public domain - so the arguments about paying $5K for a used/rare original Klon are a bit silly - there are clones of the Klon that are easily close enough - some possibly even a little better than the original. Thanks again for the suggestion.

 

[Acey Boy]

I will try that. Thanks! BTW - after watching a few vids about the Klon at the JHS Petals YouTube channel (highly recommended) - I've figured out that the actual original specs for the Klon are now in the public domain - so the arguments about paying $5K for a used/rare original Klon are a bit silly - there are clones of the Klon that are easily close enough - some possibly even a little better than the original. Thanks again for the suggestion.

Good point...mine is a Klone actually...BYOC Silver Pony 2 which adds some cool switchable options to the original circuit...there are other really good ones I'm sure.

 

[pjdude]

I very much like the grid slammer. Also acts as a 4th channel when run thru the clean channel.

 

[smunger4]

QUESTION...

I understand a boost needs to be in front and not in the loop. I am currently running a wah in front. Should the boost go before or after the wah?

 

[smunger4]

I am a lifelong fan of the Mesa mark series starting from when I was in my early teens in the mid eighties and my guitar teacher had a mark-IIC+, it was amazing. Then, for several years I owned a Mesa Quad-4 preamp, and that was awesome too.

So now I'm seriously considering buying the new mark 7, but as much as I love Mesa Boogies, I have to admit that the overdrive tones I hear on things like the Friedman amps (SSv2, BE deluxe) and the Victory Kraken... sound a little better. I don't want/need death metal, just a wide range of classic/hard rock and blues, as well as 80s hair metal (Van Halen, Ratt, Night Ranger, etc). Those other amps I mentioned seem to have a more personality in their overdrive tones, but without the muddy/artificial sounds you hear in things like a line6 solid state amp (at least their older ones).

I would add 5150 to this list of amazing O.D. tones, but those sounds just a LITTLE too processed/artificial to me. Bogner was also close, but their tones are too dark/woody for me. Their Atma didn't have this problem, but it's too inflexible for many applications. (No midi, limited control from the footswitch)

But I'm convinced that these better overdrive tones were achieved via circuitry that's really more like having a light overdrive (like a morning glory) built in the amp, and if I'm right about that, then that's sort of "cheating" and in a sense, the amp is making decisions for you! I think perhaps the key here is that Mesa is more purist and trying to not try too hard!

Meanwhile, the flexibility and range of tones from a Mesa mark is amazing, the midi and built in load box, and IR cabs - all that is amazing. I really want the Mesa Mark 7, just with a little bit more personally in the overdrive.

It's possible that this is already solved with the new Mark 7 tones? Very few reviews/vids have covered that well yet. I'm curious about that.

So, does anyone have any suggestions for pedals that achieve this same tone goal? ...either where (1) the pedals is doing all the O.D. on the clean channel, or (2) where it's adding just a little bit of extra personally to the Mark amp's overdrive tones, but without being death metal - please specify that in your suggestions.

I just picked up the beloved Boss SD-1 for my Mark V and have been very impressed. In addition to allowing for the "4th" channel through Ch1, it is really great in front of Ch2. I keep the drive setting fairly low (about 9:00). I Really resisted an OD pedal figuring I had more than enough gain, but it really seems to "tighten" up the overall sound.

 

[smunger4]

Just picked up this SLO pedal for $180. Any opinions on running this through the clean channel rather than the SD-1?

 

[user 21540]

I prefer scooped sounding distortions in front of 1x12 Mesas as they are already quite honky in the mids. An old school treble booster like a Rangemaster-type circuit is great to clip the clean channel for a crunch sound.

 

[smunger4]

I prefer scooped sounding distortions in front of 1x12 Mesas as they are already quite honky in the mids. An old school treble booster like a Rangemaster-type circuit is great to clip the clean channel.

I should clarify...Mark V through 4x12 rectifier

 

[Nandrewjackson]

That new mxr duke of tone is super duper

 

[smunger4]

Read good things about the MXR....anyone use a Flux Drive in front on Mark V CH 1?

 

[Sinner's Swing!]

I have a Marshall amp in a box for my Marshall tones. Gets you pretty close. The one I use is called the Room #40 by Tsakalis audio. Has plenty of cool features to shape the tone as well. Probably best through the clean channel of the Mark V, or maybe the Fat channel. I used it with a Princeton Reverb before I got my Mark V combo. Still do occasionally, I'm new to the Mesa family so still figuring out what I like and what not. Really enjoy the crunch mode and the CII+ so far. Clean channels also sound great just as they are with a little tweaking.

 

[smunger4]

Very cool...I had a Princeton Reverb wayy back around 1977 that my Dad bought for probably $300, if that. Now they go for huge $$$ (if I had only known). Problem was I was a Zep guy and hard to do that with a Princeton. I have sold/traded so much s#$#$ over the years that is worth big bucks now.

I digress...

So, spent some time with the SLO pedal..it actually is really impressive, but IMO not a match in any way for the Mark V (or probably any Mark). Really is an "amp in a box" and kicks a$#$#@#, (I have had Soldanos, but not a 100), but unless you really cleanup Ch1, it is overwhelming...and forget about CH2, doesn't need any more drive .

Sticking with the SD-1 at 1/3 the price. Works great on both 1 and 2 when dialed in correctly.

 

[gibsonboogie]

Agree with what woodbutcher65 said, it sounds like you may actually want a Marshall. Personally, I think the mark series overdrive tone is already great, but a few pedals can add some variety. I use an Xotic EP booster right before the preamp, it adds a little color to the sound and pushes the 1st gain stages into overdrive. I also have an Xotic RC booster before the EP booster. The RC is actually a low gain overdrive as well as a boost.

I manage to mimic a marshall sound with EQ. The mesa EQs cannot fine tune to that degree, so I use an EQ pedal in the fx loop. One big difference to my ears between Mesas and Marshalls, or between Marshalls and most other amps is the upper-mid range bump. I boost 2kHz a decent bit. I also bump up 4kHz a little. It took some tweaking to get that sound and it is very dependent on all the other eq you're already using.

On my Mark V:35, channel 2 preamp on the Mk IV mode, no amp GEQ, eq pedal in the fx loop, I can get close to a classic rock marshall tone. When that's pushed with the EP booster, it even gets a little "brown"-ish. The EP is based on the preamp in the echoplex which was used by EVH and many others to push the front end of the older marshalls.

 

[shawnohio]

Agree with what woodbutcher65 said, it sounds like you may actually want a Marshall. Personally, I think the mark series overdrive tone is already great, but a few pedals can add some variety. I use an Xotic EP booster right before the preamp, it adds a little color to the sound and pushes the 1st gain stages into overdrive. I also have an Xotic RC booster before the EP booster. The RC is actually a low gain overdrive as well as a boost.

I manage to mimic a marshall sound with EQ. The mesa EQs cannot fine tune to that degree, so I use an EQ pedal in the fx loop. One big difference to my ears between Mesas and Marshalls, or between Marshalls and most other amps is the upper-mid range bump. I boost 2kHz a decent bit. I also bump up 4kHz a little. It took some tweaking to get that sound and it is very dependent on all the other eq you're already using.

On my Mark V:35, channel 2 preamp on the Mk IV mode, no amp GEQ, eq pedal in the fx loop, I can get close to a classic rock marshall tone. When that's pushed with the EP booster, it even gets a little "brown"-ish. The EP is based on the preamp in the echoplex which was used by EVH and many others to push the front end of the older marshalls.

I have an express 5/50 original, a dsl20, a blackstar, and have also tried this on some other hot rodded and hand wired amps. I just dial in about 40% gain on the preamp, and use an OCD (digital clone in my case, but a real one will do approx. same) on either setting at about 40% gain, and about 1 oclock on tone. Of course it all depends on what you want to play, for me i'm going for classic rock. I've found an OCD with the amp in this configuration to give me just want I want harmonics, tone, high gain distortion, and sustain. Without losing the guitar's tone entirely, humbucker or single coil.

 

[shawnohio]

An OCD or knockoff gain on 40%, tone at 1 o'clock, output at 40%. Your amps gain on 40%. it works on any channel. Don't worry about the version OCD, etc etc. but i would recommend a used one or a clone. This works on any amp, you get better harmonics, sustain, distortion, and you can still hear some guitar tone. It's for classic rock, not metal stabs.