Attenuator recommendations for a Mark II

[zebpedersen]

Has anyone got any experience or recommendations for running an attenuator with their Mark II, or any other vintage Marks?

Everywhere seems to recommend the UA Ox, but I'm not really that bothered with a lot of the recording features, and all of the demos online are with Deluxes and JTM-45s.

Do old Boogies respond well? Any particular models anyone can recommend?

 

[rarebitusa]

Has anyone got any experience or recommendations for running an attenuator with their Mark II, or any other vintage Marks?

Everywhere seems to recommend the UA Ox, but I'm not really that bothered with a lot of the recording features, and all of the demos online are with Deluxes and JTM-45s.

Do old Boogies respond well? Any particular models anyone can recommend?

Here's one data point. I have a IIC+ HR, was using an old Sholtz Power Soak that seemed to work fairly well, but wanted to do silent recording with a reactive load. Decided on a Two Notes Captor - 4ohm. Initially it seemed ok, but eventually noticed a clipping like distortion, without the cab model on, mostly on Ch 1, which I run pretty clean Vol 1~6. Less noticeable on the 100W setting. BTW, the load worked fine with my V:90. After a deep dive trying numerous things, figured it was an amp problem. Ended up at Mesa with Mike B (super guy) and we spent some time going thru a number of load comparisons. The amp was fine, this IIC+ just didn't match up well with that Captor load on certain settings. Best perf was using 100W @ 8ohms into the 4ohm Captor . So impedance matching with the output stage is pretty important. As Mike explained it, those older amp's impedance matching can vary quite a bit based on load and sometimes it's just trial & error to find out what works best.

BTW, fellow BB Thaymz has the same IIC+ and Captor setup, with no issues, but his has Simulclass.

 

[CoG]

I use a Two Notes Torpedo Live with my simulclass Mark III and it works very well.

I've also run my 100W TOV head through it (which is an insanely loud, high-output amp on Bold and Silicon) with no issues.

 

[zebpedersen]

Thanks for the input guys.

Is the Captor basically a Live without the recording features? (I’m not super fussed about them you see.)

What sort of volume reduction are you able to get with a two notes setup?

(Since posting I have seen Mesa are shipping a new Cab Clone with attenuator soon...)

 

[rarebitusa]

The Captor has a silent recording interface and one builtin in cab simulator, it also has a -20db output to run a speaker cab at reduced volume. It's a solid product as reactive load boxes go. The Live is far more capable and flexible with it's silent recording features, multiple cab sims and support for more complex live setups.

If you just need vol reduction, a passive loads are pretty cost effective ie: Rivera, Bulgera or even a vintage Scholtz Power Soak are decent options to name a few. IIRC there were a few threads on the forum that covered the topic well.

 

[Tiki295]

I can’t run my Mark IIC+ without an attenuator in any kind of home or performance situation. Master on 1.5 is too loud for most bars, etc. I use a Scholz Power Soak. I’d consider a THD 8-ohm model if I needed the line out.

This is the main reason I’m considering a Mark V:35. The Mark II is just too much amp for me anymore

 

[rarebitusa]

I can’t run my Mark IIC+ without an attenuator in any kind of home or performance situation. Master on 1.5 is too loud for most bars, etc. I use a Scholz Power Soak. I’d consider a THD 8-ohm model if I needed the line out.

This is the main reason I’m considering a Mark V:35. The Mark II is just too much amp for me anymore

I hear you man... or maybe should say I hear the IIC+ :lol:

 

[CoG]

What? I can't hear you guys!

Just gotta say though, I have played a Mark V:35 a few times and I found it kinda neither/nor, and the two guys I know who've owned them flipped out pretty quick. The power section just can't quite cash the checks the preamp writes. At gig volumes it sounds like it's trying too hard, and at basement volumes it just sounds kind of flat.

Definitely put some serious time on it before dropping the $$$ unless you can get a really good deal used. I'd be checking out the Two Notes Captor or Captor X instead and just keep gigging the Mark II

 

[Tiki295]

I am REALLY glad the MkII has wheels...

 

[zebpedersen]

Thanks everyone for your replies on the thread, I ended up getting the Ox earlier this week.

Really impressed by how well it works with the C+, all the clips online being with low-wattage Fenders and Plexis I wasn't sure what to expect. I'm going to leave a few impressions here in case anyone else finds it useful.

Boogie amp tones with the attenuator
I've dialled back the preamp gain a touch on both channels and rolled off a little bit of bass on the GEQ, everything else just got *more* in a very balanced and pleasant way all the way up the master (which I'm now running at 7).

With a touch of power amp distortion, the clean channel is an insanely great pedal platform, it's suuu-per harmonically rich (Keeley TS808 and BB Preamp stacked is the best lead tone I've ever had).

The lead channel has a little extra wool on it that I need to work on dialling out, but overall it's incredibly full sounding, and like the clean channel it's hugely rich harmonically.

When pushing the power section to these levels the amp becomes highly interactive and incredibly sensitive to your playing dynamics. It's very addictive.

Even at living room volume, the sustain is outstanding.

This is a fantastic accessory for a Boogie amp, it's everything I already loved about my C+ but more, plus some new characteristics that were unavailable at lower volume settings.

The Ox itself
I found the speaker simulations to be really excellent; although I always prefer simplicity, the ability to select a couple of mics and adjust the room volume is critical (when you roll the room control back to get a dry signal you realise how dead it sounds without a little bit of this sauce).

I was put off the Boss Waza Tube thing instantly by how many features and controls it had, and it seems like the Ox strikes a nice balance between necessary features and simplicity.

The headphone output is fantastic, but sounds quite different to the line out to a DAW. This may be down to my setup, however. I am only running a single output, and there isn't a way to output in mono as far as I can tell.

Purely cosmetic, but I was surprised that the knobs are not perfectly aligned to their gauges on the front panel. A small thing but surprising given the price tag.

Another very minor criticism, but the built-in example rigs feel more like slightly gratuitous product demos than useable tones. I find this a bit disappointing, it makes an otherwise very classy product feel slightly like a 90s Zoom multi-FX. This may say more about my early guitar playing experience than the Ox

At home, I'm only really able to run the speaker level on zero or one. There is a massive (>100%) jump in volume between 1 and 2. I am running an high powered 85W-rated amp at a pretty decent clip so this is likely less pronounced with a smaller amplifier.

I'm very impressed by the Ox. I haven't tried any of the others mentioned in this thread and elsewhere on the Internet, but based on my initial impressions it's brought a tremendous amount to my rig and I would highly recommend it to others.

 

[jmf1928]

I just got my IIB, and I love it into the Ox as well. I only use it with headphones really and I’d recommend it with almost no reservations. I do with it could do 48KHz or 96 for use in my recording sessions, but it sounds fantastic with this amp.

 

[iceman]

I picked up the Boss TAE, still getting to know it. My Mark III will drop out all the volume shortly after turning on. My other amps don’t have this issue. I’ll swap out power tubes on Mark III but I think the tubes are fine, so not sure what is going on. I don’t want to blow up the III it’s my best sounding amp.

I notice a top end artifact with the TAE on the clean channels. Came across a Pete Thorn article that read this is actually the sound of the amp and not clipping. And that it’s really present we just don’t hear it through the cabs because of our hearing location, not sure that makes sense though. But if I roll back volume on guitar or gain on amp it reduces.

https://www.celestionplus.com/news/pete-thorn-3-clean-tones-speaker-irs/

 

[iceman]

I picked up the Boss TAE, still getting to know it. My Mark III will drop out all the volume shortly after turning on. My other amps don’t have this issue. I’ll swap out power tubes on Mark III but I think the tubes are fine, so not sure what is going on. I don’t want to blow up the III it’s my best sounding amp.

Well swapped tubes and no drops.. So guess it was tubes. Odd.. Sounds great.

 

[rarebitusa]

I picked up the Boss TAE, still getting to know it. My Mark III will drop out all the volume shortly after turning on. My other amps don’t have this issue. I’ll swap out power tubes on Mark III but I think the tubes are fine, so not sure what is going on. I don’t want to blow up the III it’s my best sounding amp.

I notice a top end artifact with the TAE on the clean channels. Came across a Pete Thorn article that read this is actually the sound of the amp and not clipping. And that it’s really present we just don’t hear it through the cabs because of our hearing location, not sure that makes sense though. But if I roll back volume on guitar or gain on amp it reduces.

https://www.celestionplus.com/news/pete-thorn-3-clean-tones-speaker-irs/

Curious how's the Boss TAE? any update on the "top end artifact" would be welcomed. I'm still searching for a good atten solution.

Thanks for the link... the Peter Thorn article actually hits home because "clipping on cleans" with my IIC+ HR is exactly the problem I have with the Two Notes Captor. Damn... wish I had seen that article earlier, would have saved me a boatload of time. His 3 recommendations were what I figured out helped after endless hours of screwing with it. Thaymz was kind enough to help me out with comparison clips to ensure I wasn't hearing things.

Well finally took the amp to Mike B (great guy) cause I thought there was something wrong... thankfully the amps fine, fundamentally it's due to impedance matching with the load. With direct recording one can certainly mask it further with cab models. but the desired goal is to have a low volume setup with recording.

The other atten, a resistive Power Soak doesn't exhibit the "clipping", but sounds pretty bland.

Really trying to avoid buying & trying all kinds of attens to find one that's essentially compatible

 

[iceman]

Curious how's the Boss TAE? any update on the "top end artifact" would be welcomed.

Busy summer and have not had a ton more time with the TAE yet. However I've only noticed the artifact when using monitors/headphones. Also I've noticed that my DT 990 PRO (265 ohm) cans are also adding some distortion of there own. The audio interface I'm driving those cans with isn't up to task, I may pickup a dedicated headphone amp. I've been able to clean up the clean channels using Pete's tips. I'm still tweaking with cab sims etc, but as an attenuator the TAE is really nice.

 

[erickompositör72]

I had a Two Notes torpedo captor (I thought the -20db output did not sound good), and now I have a Rivera Rockcrusher.

I pretty much only use it for direct recording.

With my Mark II's, even at apartment volume, I find they sound best with no attenuator at all. I'm beyond thrilled with the sound of these amps at any volume.

Maybe I'd be impressed with a top-notch attenuator, but at this point, I don't find them to be necessary with Mesa Mark's.

 

[rarebitusa]

I had a Two Notes torpedo captor (I thought the -20db output did not sound good), and now I have a Rivera Rockcrusher.

So I currently have a 4 ohm Captor... I'd be interested in your further thoughts comparing it to the Rivera. I do use it for both recording and playing to get the amps vol into a sweeter tube spot. Usually run the -20db mode and agree it changes the tone and not for the better. The Captor and my IIC+ do not get along at all, the load causes the power amp to produce a very crappy clipping with the power stage. However it seems to sound ok with the MkV and the LSS. So I workaround the IIC+ issue by running it into the V's power section. I do often wonder if I'd be better off with something else.

 

[erickompositör72]

I do find the Rivera has a less compressed sound (when recording) than the Two Notes. Also, it has this "warm" switch, which seems to emulate some of the IIc+'s warmth that I do feel is lost a bit in the attenuation. I find it to work quite well as an attenuator, but I really haven't tried many, and don't really use that function much.

I have been very happy using the Rivera for recording. I decided to keep it and sell the Two Notes because, as I mentioned, I found the Two Notes pretty useless for attenuation, and the Rivera had a warmer tone for recording.

I must say, there was a pleasing thickness/fullness to the recorded sound of the Two Notes, but the caveat was that it came with some compression. I haven't really missed it, though.

 

[rarebitusa]

With my Mark II's, even at apartment volume, I find they sound best with no attenuator at all.

Thanks for that input. Yea for the IIC+ I couldn't agree more, directly running two 8 ohm cabs off of both 4 ohm outs is my fav setup. But the Master has to get up to at least 1.5 to make that worthwhile. I have an old Scholtz Power Soak, which works, but it's purely resistive and that tends to sound like the blanket got tossed over the cab.

I considered a Rockcrusher early on, especially after watching this Peter Thorn review. Do you find that the atten levels are fairly inline with maintaining the tone like they are in this vid. The Captor of course isn't in this league.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoxFW2TK0Gc

 

[Laurent Brondel]

I have a SOB head and Mk3 green stripe combo and I tend to agree that those amps don’t really need an attenuator, as most of the gain happens at the preamp/PI level.
Using the 4ohms speaker out for an 8ohms load reduces volume slightly and takes a bit of the edge off, and the way the Simulclass is wired on my Mk3 definitely shaves a few dBs.
If one really wants an attenuator, find a used Hot Plates, those are very transparent at the lower settings and have bright and deep switches to compensate for the perceived loss in the extreme frequencies, I use one with my Marshalls and even at -8dB it really keeps the amps character and dynamics.