Anyone ever compare a JCM 800 2203 and a Mark IV?

[McLovin]

Hello everyone, I came to this forum for some guidance on my next purchase, I've narrowed down my amp search for now to two different amps, a Mark IVa short head, and a Marshall JCM 800 2203 reissue. Yes, I know, not very similar amps.

If have been listening to countless clips of the Mark, and read up on here and a bunch of other forums about both of these amps. The problem is, there is nowhere for me to play a IV , and I always go play amps before I buy. I haven't actually owned anything Mesa/Marshall, so I figured with the prices right now it's time to try something new.

There are a few things that are worrying me about the Mark IV. One, is that I might not be able to get some certain 'classic' tones out of it, I can't say definitley, but from what people have said, it may not be possible. I play alot of Stevie Ray, Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Boston, The Who, Van Halen etc. Not really sure if it can nail these tones that great, I know it can do everything else I play, but this is a big part that is holding me back. The Marshall can nail all of those from what I've tried pretty well with a Tubescremer/OD up front for some of those.

Second issue with it is that I have heard alot of issues with the Mark IV being not the simplest amp to dial in, I am willing to spend time getting tones, but I don't want to sit with the amp and spend most of my time tweaking, instead of playing. I've already gone through that with some other amps I have.

Third, is the Marshall is about $300 cheaper, which isn't a big deal, I'd just rather save my cash. I already have a few cabinets and am planning to get rid of one to fund this purchase. :lol:
I was thinking possibly getting a Roadking, but I don't want to really put any more cash out unless it's REALLY worth it.

Let me know what you all think, I know some of you have played both of these amps and chime in.

 

[JOEY B.]

Well, none of those bands that you mentioned used MESA amps. I wouldn't go for a 2203 reissue either. Marshall used RoHS solder (tin solder), and cheap transformers. You can purchase a real 2203 for just about the same amount of money as a reissue. Get a pre-1984 2203... :wink:
SRV: Dumble/Fender/Marshall Plexi
Hendrix: Marshall Plexi/Sound City
Pink Floyd: Fender/Marshall Plexi
The Who: Marshall/Hiwatt/Sound City
Van Halen: Marshall Plexi/Vox
Boston: Marshall Plexi
Rock music was built on the Marshall sound - it's just that simple.
Oh, I love the MESA Mark IIC+ too! I run it in stereo with my 72 Marshall Mark I Super Lead... :wink:

And more food for thought,

The 2203 JCM-800 Marshall will NEVER sound like a cranked plexi. The Boogie amps are SO much more versatile than their Marshall counterparts of the same vintage, it is unreal. But, in the end, your ears will make the decision for you. 8)

 

[McLovin]

Well, none of those bands that you mentioned used MESA amps. I wouldn't go for a 2203 reissue either. Marshall used RoHS solder (tin solder), and cheap transformers. You can purchase a real 2203 for just about the same amount of money as a reissue. Get a pre-1984 2203... :wink:
SRV: Dumble/Fender/Marshall Plexi
Hendrix: Marshall Plexi/Sound City
Pink Floyd: Fender/Marshall Plexi
The Who: Marshall/Hiwatt/Sound City
Van Halen: Marshall Plexi/Vox
Boston: Marshall Plexi
Rock music was built on the Marshall sound - it's just that simple.
Oh, I love the MESA Mark IIC+ too! I run it in stereo with my 72 Marshall Mark I Super Lead... :wink:

Yes, I know nobody I listed plays them. I play a bunch of other stuff too, like Metallica, Between the Buried and Me, Mastodon, Muse etc. I Just thought I may have trouble nailing those certain tones through the Mark.

The reason I am interested in a reissue is that I really want an FX loop, and have played both and thought they were pretty tonally similar. (some may agree, disagree). I know EVH used a JCM 800, but the other bands, they JCMs weren't even out during their time.

 

[bryan_kilco]

I'd say the Mark IV would get you pretty close to any tone you need.....I havent personally played many Marshalls, but really....they just seem like 1-2 trick ponies to my ears. RHY2 on my IV gets me close enough to the "vintage/classic rock" tone to my ears.

 

[theweatherman]

You might want to look into a mesa electra dyne. it's pretty much mesa's take on a plexi with a boogie flare. it is one of the best sounding amps i have ever heard. pure and simple.

 

[kiff]

As far as the "hard to learn" part of the mark4. just make sure you read the manual and the tips on this forum first. It will save you a LOT of time. Once you get used to it, it's not that big of a deal and it offers a lot of flexibility.

 

[jjblacksheep]

Mark series can do an amazing number of things and do them very well......once you learn how everything affects the tone. Even with recommended settings, with your own personal setup, be prepared to spend a good bit of time tweaking. It's worth every minute though.

 

[ryjan]

The Mark IV is the baddest amp I have ever played (tied with the V anyway). However, with the bands you've listed I'd have to second the vote for an Electrodyne.

 

[Fronzil]

My problem with using a MESA as a stand-alone rig is "fatigue". There's really not a lot of "musical" low-end coming out of a Mesa. Try jacking the preamp low-end on any post Mark I Boogie, and you'll know what the term "flubby" bass is all about! The original Mark I has the best sounding low-end of any Boogie IMO.

uh sorry, are you trying to say the IIC+ and IV have flubby bass? haha..and as far as mesa being 'live' amps..some of my favorite recorded tones are from the IIC+ / IV

 

[lesterpaul]

I should clarify..

...the gaindeli clarifies!!!attaboy!you are making progress! :wink:

 

[Fronzil]

I should clarify. Compared to a Marshall, the Mesa amps can, and will have a "flubby" bass response - if they're not dialed-in properly. Most Marshall's don't have a dynamic EQ section, so it's just not an issue.

if they're not dialed in properly..who plans on buying an amp to do that though haha

 

[Force]

The man asks whether he can get tones out of a MK IV to play SRV, Hendrix, etc. The answer is a simple: Hellyeah ya can!!!

The Mark IV has a clean channel that is as close to a Fender as you will find on just about any amp. Of course you can run a TS-808 in front of your Mark IV on the clean channel, or use a Mesa Bottle rocket (if you can find one), or a Fulltone FD II, etc.

Beyond that, you can dial in Rhythm 2 with a little gain, maybe pull the gain switch out for "Fat" mode if you are using single coils and dial in the presence and EQ to taste. Pushed blues, overdrive, whatever you want, just dial up or back off the gain as needed.

As far as some of the other names, VH, Boston, whatever... Channel 3 will smoke any JCM 800 easily for those tones!!!

Really, I think the Mark IV is the clear choice. I can get someone up to speed on dialing in a Mark IV in about 5 minutes or less. (Just refer to the sample settings in the manual. Of course you can tweak a Mark IV all day, and I am still admittedly finding new nuances of tone with mine after owning it over four years, but I think a lot of people get scared away from the Mark IV thinking it is an impossible amp to set up, and that is not true.

It IS an extremely versatile amp, and you can get pretty much any tone you want from it from country & blues to metal, but when you break it down, it is not difficult at all imo. I admit there are some things, that if you know them in advance can save you a lot of time, and they are all outlined in the manual like not adding too much bass, trying out the V shape on the EQ, etc., ...so provided a person is of average intelligence and willing to read through said instructions, the mark IV can be a very friendly and useful companion for someone needing a lot of tones in one amp, especially for someone such as this dude who needs a lot of different types of sounds.

When I first bought my Mark IV, I instantly plugged in my guitar, did the usual thing which is immediately go to the Lead channel, place all knobs on 5, set the channel volumes and master output, and begin playing while twisting each knob one at a time beginning with Gain and Lead Drive until I got things where I wanted them sounding. In just a couple minutes I had some really cool tones.

just my .02 worth.... :wink:

 

[emperor_black]

I bought the Mark IV after playing on it for a few minutes. I went to try the amp because I've never tried it confident that its too expensive and that I will not be buying it. I was wrong! In a few hours time, I convinced the wifey that I needed one.

Without reading a manual, without this website, I was able to dial a great tone within a few hours. Its not at all difficult to get your tones. I've listened to SRV songs and like someone said, the R2 channel is best for it. Just make sure you try it with a strat. :lol:

Oh, and the only reason I think people sell the amp is because its too easy to get lots of tones on this amp. they're looking for something more challenging... :evil: :lol:

 

[fishyfishfish]

I have had a couple 800's back in the day, and I would have to say you could get all those tones and more with a IV. And although I haven't tried the loop in the new 800's, I would have to say the IV would have a much better loop hands down.
As far as the Road King, that is way different than Marshall or the Mark IV so you should spend some time playing that one before pulling the trigger. The one thing I would say that Mesa has over almost every builder out there is the customer service and build quality.

 

[lshred365]

In later years THE WHO did use Boogie's. On who are you and the later tours he switched from Highwatt to the triple Boogie stack. As far as the Plexie thing it's hard to keep a plexi sounding like a plexi . If you need the VanHalen sound first you need NOS 6Ca7 Fat Boy's, then the VanHalen mods, your beter off getting a 5150 for that tone.

 

[Rezamatix]

I say just get a mark v, my best friend has the modded jcm 800 2203 from the early eighties, the mark v kills it, he has got one sound, I've got like 9 amps, it's even better than a mark iv...seriously try the mark v, you can always put el34s in it if you want. It's more amp for the money, did I mention it's better than the mark iv?

 

[emperor_black]

did I mention it's better than the mark iv?

you did not just say that! :twisted: :lol:

 

[dwsabianguy]

^ I'm with him. I'd take my IV over a V any day.

 

[Masterof1angel]

Hello everyone, I came to this forum for some guidance on my next purchase, I've narrowed down my amp search for now to two different amps, a Mark IVa short head, and a Marshall JCM 800 2203 reissue. Yes, I know, not very similar amps.

If have been listening to countless clips of the Mark, and read up on here and a bunch of other forums about both of these amps. The problem is, there is nowhere for me to play a IV , and I always go play amps before I buy. I haven't actually owned anything Mesa/Marshall, so I figured with the prices right now it's time to try something new.

There are a few things that are worrying me about the Mark IV. One, is that I might not be able to get some certain 'classic' tones out of it, I can't say definitley, but from what people have said, it may not be possible. I play alot of Stevie Ray, Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Boston, The Who, Van Halen etc. Not really sure if it can nail these tones that great, I know it can do everything else I play, but this is a big part that is holding me back. The Marshall can nail all of those from what I've tried pretty well with a Tubescremer/OD up front for some of those.

Second issue with it is that I have heard alot of issues with the Mark IV being not the simplest amp to dial in, I am willing to spend time getting tones, but I don't want to sit with the amp and spend most of my time tweaking, instead of playing. I've already gone through that with some other amps I have.

Third, is the Marshall is about $300 cheaper, which isn't a big deal, I'd just rather save my cash. I already have a few cabinets and am planning to get rid of one to fund this purchase. :lol:
I was thinking possibly getting a Roadking, but I don't want to really put any more cash out unless it's REALLY worth it.

Let me know what you all think, I know some of you have played both of these amps and chime in.

I have a original jcm800 and a mark ivb. The ivB is nothing like the 800 and vice versa. No you will not get those tones - mark V is so much better for that and covering songs in general. You could also look into the Randall MTS if you want those tones. Get Pete Turley from Grailtone's mts forum to mod a plexi or jcm800 preamp and he also has a Mark series preamp (haven't played that yet) as well as many others which rock! clips are on gigmods.com. If you want the real things, Mark IVb for me only sounds great through Vintage 30's. As for playing those songs, you can def. do them but you will have a mesa distortion and not the el34 sound even if you put two in the class a slots. You will probably also want a BB preamp or 808 tube screamer IMHO for channel 2 to get great tones on that stuff. The IV can do it imho but the V is much better stock for that especially with GT-12 75 celestions. The V with =C= EL34's and Tung sol preamps is sick! The IV and C+ modes sound like a iic+ as far as sustain and gain, with perfect tones to record with, perfectly balanced. It doesn't have enough wickedness in the power amp and eq for live stuff if you want super heavy but if you want a perfect mix with a bassist, it's sick. The 2nd channel and 1st are great with the 2nd having what you want especially with el34's. will give you a phenomenal classic tone with mesa tightness and clarity as well as the mark 1 tone and a really clear dirty edge tone. I've never played the reissue 800 but the original is great. For the price a modded preamp in an rm50 is up there too. It doesn't sound exactly the same but nothing does, probably not even the reissues. Personally I do agree with some others here about the Plexi being a cooler amp for gainy stuff than the jcm800. However, I have to say that so far my V has been a lot better overall than the IV, even in the lead channel. Neither is perfect though. I like the preamp in the V and the poweramp/eq of the IV. The iv to me sounds very (fizzy?) and cold in the lead channel and must be played through V30's to sound good (which it does). It has much more bass and scoop and is much looser and easier to play but is colder and muddier especiallly at high saturations like 8 drive 8 gain 8 treble on emgs. The V is much warmer and clearer and tighter but lacks the thunderous deep low end and doesn't quite scoop as much. Also, it is stiffer, drier and harder to play. The different power options blows me away though, you have 15 watt sweet class a (black album low volume additive), 45 watt ab (black album through el34's marshall if you have it set up with el34's and tung sols like mine) and 90 simulclass (both together for super saturation, warmth and harmonics). It's ridiculous. The Mark IV does have more bass even in triode (which I love) than the V does in pentode. Anyway, if you want the 5150 like Ishread, the MTS Ultra XL modded by Pete will get you right there (so much gain) or maybe an XTC modded by Pete to Van halen! The mark IV can get you the SRV Hendrix tones a bit, especially with a pedal - let's put it this way, you can play the songs fine. But if you want those tones, there is nothing like an el34 loaded amp, especially nothing exactly like a marshall. You'd need a pedal really to get close and el34's to get convincing to other gear heads, and a marshall to be authentic. It all depends on how good your ear is, your experience, and what matters to you. For me, a marshall style preamp and el34 poweramp is great for those old songs, an actual Marshall is even better but doesn't usually matter as much to me as the most important tone to me is the heavy metal tone. In that case, nothing but a IIc+ will do. I'm just that way. Hope that helps!
-Angel