Alternate Speakers for Royal Atlantic

[jcoggins7]

Aside from Vintage 30s and Black Shadows, what are some other speakers you guys are using with your Royal Atlantics? I see at least one person has tried and enjoyed Creambacks. I'm running a 2x12 Recto cab with well worn V30s, which sounds incredible with my brother's Lonestar, but at times, I feel like it's nite the best pair with the Royal. I find myself running the treble at 9 o'clock or lower, mids at noon to 3 o'clock, and bass at 3. At times, there's a harshness I can't dial out, although I will admit that it's probably about time for a full retube. On that note, link me a thread with your favorite tubes. Let's just focus on speakers here, if that's cool! Thanks guys!

 

[CoG]

I have 2 EVM-12s and 2 Eminence RWBs in an X in my 4x12. Works well with both my Mark III and my RA-100 heads.

The RWB is a 70s Southern-flavoured speaker and is a little gritty, fuzzy, and smooths out the upper mids and highs as you get louder. The EVMs are, as always, very hi-fi, punchy and clear all through the range. This mix smooths out the slight 'nasal' thing the Mark III can get while still letting it cut through like a Mark should (when I play the mark I'm playing LOUD.)

For the RA, the RWBs make the amp a little more 'forgiving' and warm it up, especially on the blue channel, and the big EVMs keep it from getting too compressed (especially if you are using the power soak.) I also find this combo keeps me from having to tweak the amp every time I change power soak settings or go from 50 to 100, and if I want to dial in a more modern sound or use my baritone, the EVMs make the most of the RA's moderate bass.

 

[bandit2013]

For speakers, it depends on the type of cabinet you are using. If it is closed back, V30's always seem to be satisfying with the RA100. If you have an open back cabinet (1/4 or less opening) I personally found the Celestion Creamback G12H75 to sound the best. V30 in an open back cabinet seem to sound fizzy at reduced volume. However, I did not find those favorable in a closed back application. EV is not bad but tends to loose the midrange due to its flat response and may be too much for the clean channel. Not bad for Hi/Lo channel though. Organic Timbre Rhapsody is a little better performance wise with the RA over the EV but that speaker is much better suited for a Mark V. Royal settings would be to reduce treble and boost the bass as that fills out the tone a bit more. The amp does not have a presence feedback so it will be on the bright side. reduction of the treble on the Hi/Lo channel is key. Clean channel it is the opposite, reduce the bass and raise the treble.

Here is a link to the preamp tubes I prefer with the RA100 head. I selected tubes that complemented the OS Recto 412 cab. I am also using SED =C= EL34 tubes but the Mesa EL34 are good. Mullard RI EL34 will work too but will be a bit more aggressive in tone (I use those in the RA100 Combo with the Creambacks). There is something to gain with preamp tube choices but keep in mind that the changes will be mild but noticeable. I do like the Mesa tubes in the V4 and V5 positions as the clean channel sounds better when the gain is driven hard with those tubes. I have also tried a tung sol in V1 or V2 with the Mesa 12AX7 tube with some good results but feed back with higher gain settings was a challenge to prevent. Long plate 12AX7 tend to have more treble roll off than the short plate variety (check the specifications of the tubes in the tone charts most vendors will have on their site.).

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=73843

 

[bandit2013]

I have decided to try something different in the RA100 Combo. I had the cream backs in there for some time. Not bad, and much better than the V30 in the open cab format. My head I will run with an OS Recto 412 stock. To me that sounds great. The combo on the other hand using the box set of cones tends to be a bit different. I had been thinking about it again. Did I like the RA though the crème alnico 90W speaker or not. Before I killed it with the JP-2C (over heated the voice coil) then then finished it off with the Mark V , however the speaker still sounds great until it heats up, all was good prior to the JP-2C abundance of power). This time I will be using the 16 ohm version in parallel so the load should be more than capable for the JP-2C or the rest of the amps. I did like the Celestion Cream 90W Alnico but as a single speaker it is hard to compare that to a pair of them. If it does not work out with the RA-combo I can always find out how they would sound in the Vertical 212 cab. To be honest, the single 8 ohm speaker did put a smile on my face when I used it with the Mark V. I hope it does the same with the RA100 as I feel the amp needs a bit more bottom end to it with the extra zing the ALNICO driver provides. It does have the characteristic of blending an EV and V30 together without one extreme being dominant. I will find out soon enough as the speakers should be here within a week.

 

[bandit2013]

I have them installed, only took 30 minutes to remove the cream backs to install the cream alnico's. Note the screws are silver since they were updated to larger screws. I could not find those in black. Also used bezel rings and rubber backed washers to keep it all secure. I am very impressed with the Alnico speakers. Too bad I did not jump on them first. Cream backs are great speakers but I thought they sounded a bit dull, turns out it was the tubes I had in the preamp (went to stock to compare to the TC-50) which would explain why the hi gain channel was flubby. Ooops, I thought I did not change the tubes in that amp due to number of screws to remove to get access. first impressions with the Alnico, lots of chime present and at the same time a roll of on the high end. Midrange is a bit more juicy and the bottom end is tight. I had thought it would be too dark of a speaker for the RA but learned otherwise. the grunt of lo gain and hi gain is more aggressive with a hint of vintage 30 but yet has a similar bark of the EV. Clean channel did not suffer either and that is where the speakers really get the blues going. I will see what happens after the break in period. If I am eager enough to open up one of my Vertical 212 cabs, I may try them out in a closed back 212 and return the cream backs in the combo. I have no complaints on the cream backs at all.

before the swap

after the swap

 

[bandit2013]

Don't follow me in my footsteps on this one...... I have had the speakers in the combo for quite a while now. I much preferred the creamback or stock speakers over the crème 90 Alnico's. Too much volume loss. It does have a nice chime to it but too much vintage flavor for me to keep them in the RA combo. I may have to try them in the horizontal 212 cab just to hear how they sound in a closed back format. I refuse to open up any of my Vertical 212 cabs. I love those as is.

Not sure if I will keep on going with the RA combo or give up on it. I did like it much better with the creamback so that is what will go in there soon enough.

 

[bandit2013]

I only removed one of the 90W crème speakers and installed one creamback. soldered the wires in place and ran an open back trial with the TC-100 (RA chassis was on the floor so the TC was ready and willing to drive the speakers). Hmm, not bad at all. May go with this for a bit and see if I have urges to make a change later on.

 

[bandit2013]

Got it all buttoned up after tuning the preamp of the RA to make best use of the speaker arrangement. Power tubes are the EH 6CA7 (first time for me to use them). Preamp would up with all Mesa tubes. I could not believe my ears! :shock: The Celestion Cream 90W Alnico pairs up so well with the Creamback G12H75. I can still hear the chime and top end but there is now bold deep bass that was unable to get before. Note: I had the EH 6CA7 in the amp prior to deciding to remove one or both Cream Alnico speakers. Glad I stopped when I had the pair of wires off the one speaker and decided to hear what the two speakers would sound like together. I might have to put the other pair in the horizontal 212 cab just for kicks. For first time ever the RA100 combo had some balls to it. Mind you I did like the pair of Creambacks and the pair of the Cream 90 were almost as good. Could not get that 100W amp feel from any speaker until I miss-matched the two. Both are 16 ohm speakers so not impedance miss match. Also speakers were wired in parallal in phase with each other but almost sounded like they were out of phase. Perhaps the two different speakers made that much of a difference due to the different characteristics. My Stratocaster never sounded better. Will have to grab one of the humbucker guitars and mull around a bit. I could not stop playing last night. I was that pumped up.

Note: tone will not be as huge as the Vertical or horizontal 212 cab or the OS Recto 412. But with the combo the different speaker pair made a huge difference (way better than the Creamback with V30). Guess I will be keeping the combo after all.

 

[CoG]

Ha, I also went with 6CA7s on my last retube like a month ago! I am very satisfied. They do exactly what they say on the tin - expanded high and low range and more detail, at the cost of a little bit of focus. There's a sort of "grain" on the red channel with the master at noon and the gain around 1:00 that I've never heard with the EL34s, almost like you're hearing the clipping peaks somehow. It's a really nice sound that I haven't quite gotten out of any other amp. Green is also rounder and more detailed. I think one of the strongest points of the 6CA7s is that they still sound "loud" and full-range even with the soak engaged - with EL34s I always found that having the soak in was like adding a Presence knob and turning it down.

That said, didn't do the blue channel any favours (any good setting for red is painfully glassy on blue), but since I got another JCM800 I'm probably done with the blue channel anyway.

 

[bandit2013]

I had an issue with one of the 6CA7 tubes, it started to rattle. Actually I think one of the ceramics is loose on the inner pair. I did swap out a pair of the 6CA7 and experimented with a pair of mallard EL34 RI. Not bad but sounded too much like the mallard. Then I did the unthinkable. Moved the two quiet 6CA7 to the inner positions and installed the Mesa NOS Siemens EL34 into the outer sockets. Now that was awesome. The Siemens are not as harsh as the Mesa standard EL34 or soupy rich in the mids like the mullards. Best of all they blend well with the 6CA7 at full power. 50W setting it pulls off of the NOS tubes. Now that was an improvement. Still I preferred the full complement of the 6CA7 but if I am hearing tube buzz or rattle especially on the clean channel it gets annoying quick. All is quiet and not rattle yet based on the guitar signal. The odd pair of the speakers also makes a huge difference for an open back combo. I will admit the best combination so far in the combo version of the RA would be the Cream90 and creamback75. I am so tempted to install a matching set in the horizontal 212 cab (since I bought the speakers in pairs, have one creamback and one cream not doing any work just loafing around in their respective boxes they shipped in.)